🎧 3 ways podcasting can radically change your marketing

[00:00:02] [Music overlapping with introduction to the episode] Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients. I'm Amelia Hruby, writer, speaker, and founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. On this show, I share stories, strategies, and experiments for growing your business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty.

[00:00:22] Download your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig and join us as we do it all off the grid.

[00:00:37] Hello and welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast about leaving social media without losing all your clients. I'm Amelia Hruby. I am a writer, speaker, and the founder of Softer Sounds, a feminist podcast studio for creative entrepreneurs. I am also, as you might have guessed, the host of this podcast. And I like to consider myself your guide and fellow explorer as we launch and grow thriving, feel-good businesses without social media.

[00:01:07] We are currently in Part Two of Season One of Off the Grid. And if you're just tuning in, I cannot urge you enough to go back and listen to everything we shared in Part One of the podcast. I walked you through some myths about social media for small business owners, how I left Instagram and you can too, my favorite way to create a fun, feel-good marketing plan for your business, how you can use a framework that I call the necessary, nice, and ideal framework to embed radical generosity in your business without burning out. And I had a great conversation about cultivating energetic sovereignty and email as a marketing love language with my friend, Mary Grace Allerdice.

[00:01:49] That was all Part One of Season One. And then we kicked off Part Two last week with an episode where I opened up the metaphorical doors and windows to Softer Sounds and I shared with you my top ten marketing practices for growing our audience and marketing our business.

[00:02:06] So, last week's episode is really great for people who have a little bit of a, you know, we might call it a nosy streak, who just really love to know what other people are doing. I'm one of those people [laughs]. So, if you haven't caught that episode yet, highly suggest listening to everything that we've shared so far.

[00:02:23] And then today, we are going to talk about three ways that podcasting can radically change your marketing or as I like to think about it, my three favorite things about podcasting for small businesses.

[00:02:35] Now, before we dive into that topic, I do have two quick offers slash asks for you. The first is a reminder that the Leaving Social Media Toolkit is free and available for you to access any time. All you have to do is click the link in the show notes, drop your email address there, and you'll get it in your email almost instantaneously, thanks to the magic of my favorite email service provider, Flodesk. There's also an affiliate link to register for Flodesk in the show notes. But I really love that social media toolkit. And you heard about that if you listened to the last episode. It includes three tools that I have used and use all the time in my business, including a five-step plan for leaving any social media platform, a list of 100 ways to share your work off social media, and a creative marketing ideas database. And that database is the foundation of all of the marketing that I do at Softer Sounds. So, I hope you'll go download that. Again, it's free [giggles] so there is no cost to you. And I don't even really— it's not like your cost is getting a million emails because you don't. You get one email with the toolkit in it and then every few weeks I send you an update about what's happening on the podcast so you can remember to tune in. Again, that link is in the show notes or you can head to softersounds.studio/byeig. That's b-y-e-i-g. And download the toolkit today.

[00:03:58] My second ask slash offer [giggles] is a reminder that for the rest of Season One we are hosting a giveaway. One lucky U.S-based listener can win their very own copy of the Instead Deck from Inner Workout. All you have to do to enter to win that giveaway is to leave us a voice message at speakpipe.com/offthegrid. That link to listen is in the show notes. I also want to say that if you're not able to record a voice message, you can email us your question and you will be entered to win the giveaway as well. So, I would love your voice messages so I can share them and answer them later on this season. But if that's not something that you can or want to do right now, feel free to just send an email to hi@softersounds.studio. Share your questions or your thoughts on the podcast there. And I will also enter you to win the giveaway at the end of Season One, which will be sometime this summer. I will take all of those entries and select one to win that free Instead Deck from Off the Grid— no Instead Deck from Inner Workout [laughs] as shared here on Off the Grid and you might have heard about this deck in previous episodes. It is an amazing tool created by my friend and a future podcast guest, Taylor Elyse Morrison. It's a card deck that helps you scroll less and invites you every time you think about swiping, scrolling, or double-tapping to pick up the deck, draw a card, and connect with yourself instead.

[00:05:25] So, you can enter to win the giveaway again by leaving [gentle music beings to play] a voice message or sending us an email with a question.

[00:05:32] Alright, y'all, are we ready to dive into today's episode? I am excited [music gets louder and then ends].

[00:05:42] Today's episode, again, is about three ways that podcasting can radically change your marketing or my three favorite things about podcasting for small business owners.

[00:05:52] Now, of course, full disclosure upfront, I am the founder of a podcast studio [chuckles], so obviously, I love podcasts. If you're listening to this and you're like, podcasts are not and never will be for me, that's fine. You know, there are lots of episodes of this podcast to tune into. I'd also invite you to keep listening and consider if they might be for you once you have a chance to think more about the opportunities, they present your business. I am not here to try to make you start a podcast, nor to try to make you start a podcast with me. But I have learned so much through the creative act of podcasting, which I've been doing for over five years, as well as through working with my podcast clients who are all small business owners like yourselves. And I have just seen how podcasting has transformed their business practices and transformed my business practices, and that's what I want to talk about today.

[00:06:47] So, caveat out of the way [giggles], let's dive in [jazzy noise transition].

[00:06:53] I want to tell you upfront what the three ways podcasting can radically change your marketing are.

[00:07:00] So, the first one is that podcasts are embodied.

[00:07:04] The second one is that podcasts help us slow down.

[00:07:08] And the third is that podcasts invite support.

[00:07:12] So, in the rest of this episode, I'm going to walk us through these things: how are podcasts embodied, slow, and supportive.

[00:07:20] It feels good to me just to say that, and I'm really excited to dive into each one. But if you're one of those listeners who I've heard from who is, like, taking notes [giggles], there are your three headlines right up front. Now you can drop your bullet points in between.

[00:07:32] Gosh, I used to be a teacher. Can you tell I used to be a teacher? I taught college students for, like, five years when I was in my Ph.D. program, and I still think that way sometimes [laughs]. So anyway, forgive me or appreciate it. I don't know. It's both.

[00:07:46] Alright. Let's dive into this the first way that I think podcasts can radically change your marketing. Number one is that podcasts are embodied. So, what do I mean by this? Podcasts bring your voice and therefore your body into your conversations with clients and potential clients or customers. Because of the way that podcasts are about the voice they give us this opportunity to— the way I like to think about it is kind of like cast our voice out there to listeners, and in doing so we're sending our body with it. There is something different about hearing someone's voice say something and reading it from a computer screen or in print. And I think that has to do with the fact that when we read something, it's happening in our own voice inside of our head to some extent [giggles]. But when we're hearing it, we are actually hearing the other person's voice. And I think that that— in that the other person's voice brings all of your values, your nuance, your emphasis, like it just brings what's most important to you along with the message.

[00:08:53] And there are certainly ways we can use writing to do that, but there's something about the voice for me that just it brings the body with it. And in doing so, it brings our body to our values, to our marketing, to our sales, and it makes a deep connection. I think that podcasting is often like being in the same room with someone. So, in a world where so many of our businesses are purely online or we only engage with customers online— my business is like that— a podcast is the way to get that feeling of being— of sharing space with someone.

[00:09:25] And I don't know about ya'll, but my email inbox is never a place I feel like I'm sharing space with people [chuckles]. So, as much as on this on this podcast overall, I really emphasize the role that email marketing plays in my work. And I have really, like, talked a lot about how I use email to nurture community and to continue connections. But I think that it's podcasts that really allow me to be in the room with somebody, and that's what builds trust, in my opinion, faster than anything. Being with someone, not just speaking to them, but speaking with them.

[00:09:58] And there are certainly ways and we'll talk about this more in a second, but there are ways that podcasts can feel like you're just, like, talking to nobody [laughs]. But every time I am recording, I think about somebody who's told me they listen to the show and I'm pretending that I'm having a conversation with them and I'm kind of imagining what their responses would be or their questions would be. Obviously, I'm not in the room with them, but it brings that effect of, like, sharing space, physical bodies in space, aural, a-u-r-a-l bodies in the shared space, even if it's digital space.

[00:10:31] And so when I say that podcasts are embodied and that's again, I'm really thinking about the voice and I'm really thinking about that idea of sharing the way that having a conversation is different than giving a lecture. And of course, when you're recording your podcast [laughs], you are kind of lecturing, right? Like there's not actually somebody unless you're recording with someone. It's just me here on my computer talking at you. But I think that you can have a sense that you're talking with someone. You can invite that in. And for me, that has always been easier in podcasting than over email or especially over social media.

[00:11:04] On social media, I felt like I broadcast everything and I got immediate reactions and it was, like, really intense and hard sometimes [laughs]. And I made really deep connections there and I made amazing friends that I work with to this day from social media. But there's something different to me when the connection happens through a podcast. It's like we've already been on a call together. It's like they already have a better, more intimate, more embodied sense of me. And as a business owner, that really makes my life so much easier because I don't necessarily have to, like, hop on a sales call to make a sale or I don't have to, like, do a hard sell or offer the free workshop or do the other thing, because the podcast has already done all of that trust-building work and all of that audience-warming work to get them ready to buy. And that is such a gift if you want to have an easier time marketing your products or offerings, having an audience that is ready to buy from you is the difference between having to like— a grueling launch and not.

[00:12:01] Podcasts help with that because podcasts are embodied and they bring your voice and your body into those conversations with clients and potential customers.

[00:12:12] Another way that podcasts are embodied [laughs] that will radically change your marketing is that your body has to be feeling okay for you to record a podcast because your voice gives away so much. Now I want to add an addendum to this to say that we all have different lived experiences of our bodies. I know plenty of people with chronic illness, chronic pain who record podcasts, and of course, their body doesn't feel good when they're doing that. You can handle and manage pain in many ways and still record a podcast. I don't want this to come across as like your body has to feel or be a certain way to record a podcast. But I want to say that for me, podcasting invites me to check in with my energy, to check in with how my body is feeling, and to see if my voice is ready to be shared that day.

[00:13:05] When I was just writing for social media or for email or doing a lot of these less embodied marketing tasks, I would push through whatever I might be feeling in my body. But with podcasting, I find that I really have to be and am more grounded in my embodiment for recording.

[00:13:21] There's also the fact that the voice is supported by your body. For your voice to sound good you need to be paying attention to your body. You need to be lining up your vocal cords, your lungs, and your diaphragm. You know you want that clear channel of air between those things so that you're speaking well. You need to hydrate. So, your voice has the moisture it needs to project and come out of your body. So, I think that podcasting because it, as a spoken medium, invites us to check in with our body in a way that some more writing-based marketing tools do not necessarily require or invite that check-in.

[00:13:57] And again, you can podcast no matter how your body feels or is, but I just love that podcasting invites me to check-in in a different way. And, like, for every time I've written an email, like, hunched over in like— in a totally gross position for my body, like, I finish and I'm like, "Wow, I feel horrible." I've never recorded a podcast episode and at the end been like, "Wow, I feel horrible," because as I'm recording, I always have to be checking in and I have to be adjusting my body. So, in that sense, I really appreciate how podcasts are embodied there too. It's embodiment that is a great check-in for me and my body. And then again that, like, sending my body out into my marketing to commune with my customers and clients and embodying that shared space for us too. So that's number one. Podcasts are embodied, and that's one way that they can [music begins] radically change your marketing.

[00:14:53] [Music continues to play overlapping while Amelia reads an ad] Hi, Off the Grid listeners, Amelia here interrupting our conversation today because I want to share with you one of my favorite marketing tools. When I left Instagram, I invited all of my followers to subscribe to my mailing list in order to keep in touch with me. And I promised to send them monthly-ish notes on a lot of the themes I used to talk about on social media. I've used many email service providers in my day, but my favorite of all of them is Flodesk. Flodesk is a gorgeous, easy-to-use, email service provider. It helps you create beautiful, thoughtful emails. And even better, it's really set up to help you create easy-to-use landing pages so people can join your list and workflows so you can automate sending messages to folks who sign-up through different pages. Flodesk is how I run all of the welcome sequences and lead magnets at Softer Sounds. It's also how I run the Leaving Social Media Toolkit that you might have downloaded after listening to this podcast. I'm surely not sending those emails out myself manually. Flodesk is doing all of that automagically. If you'd like to give Flodesk a try, please use my affiliate link below in the show notes. You'll get a discount, I'll get a kickback, and we will all send more beautiful emails together. Again, check out the affiliate link in the show notes. For now, we're going to get back to this episode of Off the Grid [music ends].

[00:16:27] Let's move on to number two. This one, I think, is my favorite [laughs]. I don't know if you can have a favorite off of a list of three things, but this was the one that inspired me to make this episode. Number two is that podcasts help us slow down in our marketing and our business practices.

[00:16:46] How does this work? I started thinking about this in direct comparison to social media because with social media the feedback is instantaneous, right? You post something and there's that instant gratification of likes or comments or that instant rejection of no likes or comments, right? We've talked about that in earlier episodes. Social media is all about that instant, instant, instant approach, especially when we get to stories and things. You're being encouraged to share what's happening immediately in your life. And I know that many of us have or have had content strategies, and maybe the content going up on your social media is no longer immediate. But I think for many of us, it is. It's like experience, capture, post, experience, capture, post. All of that is condensed into very few minutes. And then it's experience, capture, post, feedback, experience, capture, post, feedback, right? It's immediate and it's constant. And it's why we feel this, like, churning cycle. That's so overwhelming. It's why so many people write to me about how burned out they feel on social media because it moves so much faster than our bodies and our lives. It moves so fast.

[00:17:53] Podcasts help us slow down in many ways, so let me walk us through some of the ways. Podcasts help us slow down as we make them because there's more time between the idea for an episode and the recording— there's all these spaces there are time I guess is what I want to say. We have an idea for an episode. Then there's time until we record the episode. Then there's time until and as we edit the episode, then there's time until we edit and release the episode [chuckles]. And then there's even more time as people listen until eventually, they might reply or give you feedback. All of that is compressed, opted into the space of an hour or less on social media, but in podcasting, it's generally like a week or more. Podcasts take time to create, and so they require us to slow down.

[00:18:39] Now, can you make podcasts in a super urgent way? Yes. Do I do that with my clients? No [chuckles]. I am not interested in, like, the moving at the speed of light podcasting. I don't work on a show like The Daily and I never desire to. I'm really invested in how podcasts can help us slow down because there is this time. Something one of my favorite clients said to me [laughs]— Shout out to Janine of Feel Good Retail and the podcast, Retail For The Rest of Us. Something she said on one of our early calls was that she discovered that, like, wow, podcasting is not blogging. And how we unpacked that together is that it just— it's a totally different timeline. With blogging, she would find that she could have an idea, write it out, publish it, done. And it could move really fast. With podcasting even if she had the idea and recorded immediately [laughs], there was still the time to get it edited, and then there was still the wait until she caught her next Tuesday to release it because podcasts normally come out on a weekly or biweekly or monthly schedule. So, even if you get things done quickly, you're still kind of waiting to be like, okay, when's my next release day? And this will come out then.

[00:19:46] So, I love that line, "Podcasting is not blogging." It's, like, so obvious, but it just really speaks to this difference in temporality. I’ll use a philosophy Ph.D. word there [laughs]. It just moves slower. And honestly, at this point, I am inviting any opportunity for slowness in my business that I can, as an opportunity for sustainability.

[00:20:07] So, podcasts help us slow down by removing the immediacy of feedback, slowing down as we make them, and then again slowing down as we release them, and slowing down as people respond to them. So, if I open this kind of point by talking about how social media is so compressed, right? Like you post your TikTok and it's, like, supposed to go viral immediately [chuckles]. That's so compressed. Like, you get responses immediately and so much of the focus is on being live, right? When you're live, you completely remove any time between, like, publishing and feedback because the feedback is supposed to be happening simultaneously with the content creation.

[00:20:44] But in podcasting, there's a very beautiful boundary between you and your listeners, which is time, because most people do not listen to a podcast the second it drops. And it also doesn't have this thing that happens in social media where like, you know, how social media does the testing, where they serve your content to a small audience, see how it performs, and then serve it to a larg— larger audience.

[00:21:06] Podcasting doesn't do that, so you don't need to have that immediate uptake because you're not counting on that immediate uptake to get to the wider audience. On podcasting, if people are subscribed, they will get your episode in their subscription platform when you publish it, and then they just get to listen to it at their leisure. And sure, sometimes our queues fill up and we miss an episode, or we go back or, like, even my favorite podcast sometimes I'm like, "Oh crap, I didn't listen to the past six episodes [laughs]. I have to catch up." But it allows this spaciousness and then because podcast platforms don't have comments, they don't have likes and things, people are not giving you that feedback on every single thing that you say. Most often to give feedback, people will have to send you an email or send you a voice message or, you know, do something else that requires intention. And so many of the podcasters that I work with really do find that that kind of, like, boundary is really, really nourishing for themselves and their audience.

[00:22:05] Being able to share vulnerably without the fear of that immediate like— I mean, sometimes it can feel like a slap in the face, right? Like you write this post, you put all— something really vulnerable out there, and the first thing you see is somebody being like, "Mmm, I don't get this," or like, "This is not for me," or, "You're wrong." It's so hard to have that experience. And maybe you're somebody who shares vulnerably on social media and just gets floods of positive feedback and that's, like, really supportive for you. And I completely understand that feeling. And that was me for a long time. But I can tell you, I mean, I can pinpoint for you like the three times I got really negative feedback immediately and I couldn't tell you about the 300 times I got positive feedback immediately. And it just taught me that I wasn't willing to take that risk anymore with people I didn't know. Like this, you know, it wasn't people I was friends with. It wasn't a supportive community. For me it was just like complete and total strangers on the internet telling me I was fat because most often this happened on posts where I was talking about fat feminism or sharing pictures of my body and, like, I never need that and I've never gotten that response on a podcast. Granted, in this example, it does, I guess, have to do with pictures of my fat body, which you can't see if you're listening to a podcast. But [chuckles] I'm sure you can think about other ways in which, like— I just— podcasting does not seem to invite that immediacy of feedback, which does create a boundary between you and some of that really harmful negative feedback that can happen on social media platforms immediately.

[00:23:30] The other thing I want to talk about when I talk about podcasts helping us slow down—

[00:23:36] This is also a reminder to me to talk slower [giggles]. I get excited. I talk really fast. But another way that podcasts help us slow down is through longevity. Your podcast feed, once you put it up there, will be up there as long as you keep paying for it, or if you use a free host, as long as that host exists. People can return to your podcast episodes over time. You can continue sharing them.

[00:24:01] Yes, that's true about resharing your social media posts. But I think, you know, social media posts, as they say, like, your stories are up for 24 hours, your feed post will maybe get about 36 to 48 hours of, like, actual people scrolling in their feed and finding it time— like social media's timeline is designed to just be new, new, new, new.

[00:24:22] But podcasting isn't about, like, the newest thing in the feed. Often the way people listen to podcasts, and there's data to show this, is, like, they pick their favorite shows and they'll listen to many episodes from those regardless of when it happens— when they came out. The content just has so much more longevity in podcasting. And at this point in my business, I'm really only interested in creating content for the long term because I'm only interested in building a business for the long term because if my business is going to be built for longevity, then my content marketing needs to be sustainable and also built for longevity.

[00:25:00] So, the three ways that podcasts help us slow down is they help us slow down as we make them because they stretch out that timeline between idea recording, editing, and publishing.

[00:25:13] They also help us slow down by removing the immediacy of the feedback to what we've created. So, we get delayed gratification and we get that nice boundary, a healthy boundary between ourselves and our listeners.

[00:25:28] And then three, podcasting helps us focus on longevity, helps us create content more sustainably, and something that a friend and fellow business owner of mine said that I really love— shout out to Lex Ritchie, in a session of ours, said, "Podcasting is a way to divest from the short-term." I'm going to say that again because it's so good. Podcasting is a way to divest from the short-term. Podcasts help us slow down. They get us out of this culture of urgency. They get us out of thinking only about what's next, what's next, what's next, short-term. And they invite us into this bigger picture, longer-term vision-level view.

[00:26:10] And then, going back to our first point, they help us embody that vision through our voice and send it to our customers or clients. It's magic ya'll. It's, like, truly magic. I love podcasting so much [giggles joyfully] and it's just such a game-changer for small businesses, and I just love helping my clients see and do that and then watching how it changes their businesses in the process.

[00:26:38] [Jazzy sound transition] Okay. Point three, my last of the three ways that podcasting can radically change your marketing. Number three is that podcasts invite support. Podcasting is not a solo sport [laughs]. That's something I say in some of my, like, onboarding emails. But podcasting is not a solo sport. It is not something I suggest just doing alone. Podcasting has many steps, as you might have just heard when I made the blogging and podcasting comparison. Right? Like blogging was idea, outline, write, publish. Podcasting is idea, outline, record, edit, write show notes, publish [laughs]. There are many more steps. And so, I think what almost every podcaster I know discovers is that they do not relish in every one of those steps. Like most podcasters just want to have the idea, record the episode, and then get someone else to do the rest of it. Some of them also love editing or love show note writing, but it's really like too intensive or too much or too many steps or too— too something for us to enjoy it all alone.

[00:27:44] And so podcasting invites us, encourages us, for many people, forces us [laughs] to bring on support, to keep our podcast going, and to support the podcast and our business. And I think that many small business owners, myself included, need to hit those points in our business where we have to bring somebody in so our business can grow bigger than just us.

[00:28:05] And again, like, I relish in those opportunities when I find those moments where I'm like, "Wow, I can just, like, not be doing this [chuckles gently]." And then, I get to figure out how to bring in somebody else who's really good at that. And I get to pay them to do that. And then my business is supporting someone else's business or life and/or life, business and life [chuckles softly] in the process.

[00:28:23] And I've just seen time and time again with so many of my clients, like, their first contract hire is podcast support because podcasts teach us that we can't and shouldn't do everything and that we can bring in support to help our vision travel farther.

[00:28:42] And so that's where, of course, a podcast studio like mine comes in, you know, that Softer Sounds is built to bring in that level of— that support for small business owners. And I've kind of created that at a wide variety of price points, depending on what your budget is for that support or how much support you need.

[00:29:00] But regardless of whether or not you want to start a podcast, want to hire somebody to help with your podcast, want to hire me to start your podcast or help with your podcast, like, that's not really the point. The point here is that as small business owners, we need more opportunities to invite that support into our businesses. And podcasting is always just a really— a place that that seems to show up over and over again for people [music begins]. So, I think that's another way that podcasts can radically change your marketing because they show you how to bring on help [music ends].

[00:29:37] So, three ways that podcasting can radically change your marketing.

[00:29:42] One. Podcasts are embodied. They encourage us to stay in and with our bodies, in our marketing practices, and they help us carry our bodies out there into the world through our marketing practices.

[00:29:56] Number two, podcasts help us slow down. They invite us and maybe force us [laughs] to slow down as we make them. They create really healthy boundaries around feedback that's supportive for ourselves and our listeners, which I've got to say is really careful, especially because of that first number one, I just said where your voice like carries your— your body with it. You need those boundaries so that stays safe, ya'll, like [laughs gently], for you and for your listeners.

[00:30:24] And then podcasts also helps us slow down by giving us that long-term view, reminding us that sustainable strategies are long-term strategies.

[00:30:33] And number three, podcasts invite support. Podcasts are often moments where we realize that we can't, don't, and shouldn't have to do it all alone, and that we can find ways to bring support into our businesses and to get the help that we need and desire.

[00:30:49] And that's it. The three ways that podcasting can radically change your marketing or my three favorite things about podcasting for small business owners.

[00:31:00] This episode has been really fun to record because podcasting is so close to my heart and my business. And because of that, we're also going to extend this conversation and have a guest who is going to share more about her podcast work, how she helps people launch podcasts, and even more of our ways that podcasting has— is a game-changer for small businesses. And Chelsea is really going to talk a lot about how podcasting changed her business and, like, really fundamentally changed how she markets and sells, particularly her, like, courses and coaching.

[00:31:34] So, if you're listening to this episode and you're like, "Yeah, this is great, but I want like a real example, Amelia [laughs]." That's perfect because you're going to hear from somebody who's going to provide all of that, who's going to ground all of this in her own business for us.

[00:31:47] So, as always, I'm going to encourage you to download the free Leaving Social Media Toolkit, to leave me a voice message, a question, a comment, a feeling at the link in the show notes, or to send an email to hi@softersounds.studio with those same things or anything else you want to share.

[00:32:09] I can't wait to share my conversation with Chelsea with you in the next episode and then to talk more with other guests about more non-social media marketing strategies [music begins to quietly overlap] in Part Two of this season.

[00:32:22] And until then, y'all, I'll see you off the grid.

[00:32:34] [Music still overlapping] Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Find links and resources in the show notes and don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig that's softer sounds dot studio slash b-y-e-i-g. This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Purple Planet and our logo is by n'Atelier Studio.

[00:32:56] If you'd like to make a podcast of your own, we'd love to help. Find more about our services at softersounds.studio. Until next time, we'll see you off the grid.