💍 Pulling a Beyoncé & Following No One — Social Media Experiments with Melissa Word

Amelia [00:00:02] [Music begins to play, overlapping with introduction to the episode] Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients.

Amelia [00:00:08] I'm Amelia Hruby, writer, speaker, and founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. On this show, I share stories, strategies, and experiments for growing your business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty.

Amelia [00:00:22] Download your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig and join us as we do it all Off the Grid [music jams and fades out].

Amelia [00:00:36] Hello, Hello. And welcome to Off the Grid. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby, and you are listening to Season Two of this podcast about leaving social media without losing all or any of your clients.

Amelia [00:00:49] If you're new here, thanks so much for tuning in. I want to make sure you know about a very cool free resource that we offer called the Leaving Social Media Toolkit. This is something I created, kind of, in my journey of leaving social media. It includes a five-step plan for leaving any social platform, a list of 100 Ways to Share Your Work Off Social Media, and my amazing, super cool, sparkly, shiny database to plan creative marketing experiments. All of that is for free. Yes. $0. For free at softersounds.studio/byeig. Or you can find the link in the show notes.

Amelia [00:01:29] And if you're not new around here, welcome back, so happy to have you. You are going to love, love, love, love today's episode. So, today on the pod, I am inviting a wonderful new friend of mine. We've gotten to know each other over the past few months through some really amazing offerings that she has created.

Amelia [00:01:49] So, let me tell you all about her. Melissa Word is an artist, dancer, writer, and somatic facilitator. Her work takes the form of live performance, workshops, textile collages, drawings, and newsletters.

Amelia [00:02:02] She specializes in creating transformative group experiences for people who want to feel more creative and connected to themselves. That includes quilting classes for grief, one of which I took. It was amazing. Movement classes for anxiety relief and body image repair. Also, something I've done with Melissa [chuckles] and voice work for expanding consciousness, which I have not done, but now I immediately need to do with Melissa. And today she is here to talk to us about a very cool and transformative social media experiment that she has undergone where she unfollowed everyone and then ran her Instagram account— what do I want to call it— clean, nude [Melissa laughs heartily]. Welcome, Melissa. I'm so glad you're here.

Melissa [00:02:47] Hi Amelia. Chuckling hard at that intro. Love it.

Amelia [00:02:50] I know. [Laughs] In my head I'm like, "She's naked on the Internet [Melissa laughs]," but that's not what it is.

Melissa [00:02:55] I actually just started an OnlyFans, that's what it is [Amelia laughs heartily].

Amelia [00:02:59] Yeah, that's our— today's secret episode topic. Anyway, I obviously just read your introduction, but I feel like you are, in my heart, like, an artist's artist, and I never know what you're working on at the moment. So, could you tell us a little bit about, like, just who you are today and what you're working on in this season?

Melissa [00:03:22] Mm, thank you for that invitation. In true Human Design Manifesting Generator fashion, that is something I come up against and with and flow through all the time of like even my most— closest pals and beloveds are like, "What are you doing now?"

Melissa [00:03:40] I literally started a newsletter just so I could tell people like, "Surprise, this was who I was last week and now this is [Amelia chuckles] what I'm doing." And I just feel so like— so sweet to hear this phrase like, "The artist's artist," because I think that's, like, sort of the one identifier I always come back to and all the other ones, all the other, like, cat with nine lives versions of myself, have been like, "I don't know if that's the definition that feels correct. Like, am I a dancer? Am I a choreographer? [Starts using a British accent] Am I performance artist? Am I a writer? Am I a poet? Am I quilter?" Like, through the years. Ah, yes. Just, like, the vein of gold of art running through—

Amelia [00:04:26] Mmhm.

Melissa [00:04:26] The ways that I move through the world. That's the one that feels the most correct. But practically speaking, I feel like the way my art is really finding itself in the last couple of years is more through facilitation, right?

Melissa [00:04:43] Like, taking all of these things— I actually had this really strange premonition-ish dream last night, I think, like, getting [Amelia chuckles] ready for this. There was this piece of, like, defining what it is that I do now, which always feels like kind of a sticky quicksand for me of, like, putting the name on the thing of what it is I do as an artist.

Melissa [00:05:05] But the thing that came through in this dream was like, "Okay, I have this history as a dancer and dance artist." But that's a pretty, like, niche, esoteric world of, like, the world of modern dance. And so, I think— like what came through in the stream and what feels so correct for me is, like, I really am a bridge walker, like helping people understand or learn about or connect with all of these tools that I have learned, gathered as primarily a improvisation-based performance artist.

Melissa [00:05:42] And I just, like, create sort of whatever I feel like in the moment as an offering. Like, I've been listening to your podcast so much lately and I'm like, "Gosh, Amelia is such a wizard with strategy—"

Amelia [00:05:53] [Laughs] Yeah. Thank you.

Melissa [00:05:53] "And, like, structures and strategy for bringing your gifts into the world." Man, I got a Wild West flair into [chuckles lightly] the ways that I pulled the art rabbit from the hat. Hmm. Okay. Now we're working with this workshop or this class or— yeah, this performance piece.

Amelia [00:06:15] Yeah, I think you're a wizard, too. We're probably just different, like, elements of wizards. I think my wizardry is very much in my Capricorn Rising, right? [Laughs] Like, Earth— and yours might be more watery or airy or fiery or whatever strikes you.

Amelia [00:06:30] Something that I see a lot of with folks who love Off the Grid or people I encounter through my podcast studio— I do meet artists, and one of their biggest struggles is how do I shape offerings? How do I strategize around this? But also, then, how do I share my work in the world? How do I put it out there? How do I put myself out there? And then, they/we inevitably end up on social media and then it, like, wrecks their creative practice, like totally desiccates it. That sounds a little intense, but—

Melissa [00:07:06] I'm clapping, I'm snapping.

Amelia [00:07:07] I encounter it more than I wish I did and it's part of why I wanted to talk to you today. So, could you tell us a little bit about your journey on social media? How did you get on the platforms? What's your platform or platforms of choice? And then, how did you or when did you start sharing your art there?

Melissa [00:07:28] Mmm, desiccation feels very correct for me. I've used— in my mind, the words dehydrated.

Amelia [00:07:35] Mm.

Melissa [00:07:35] I always think about my relationship historically to sharing what feels like the richness of my interior creative life, sharing that in a public way historically has felt— yeah, totally bound, just very bound. And, like, trying to take the Colorado River and send it through a drinking straw, you know—

Amelia [00:08:00] Mmhm.

Melissa [00:08:00] And it's like, "Wow, there's problems with platform itself where you just, like, can't get a lot of depth, right?" That was, like, one sort of historical critique. And then there's all the, like, fears of being seen, fears of being misunderstood, feel— mm— there's a— there's a Venn diagram with, like, the artist self that is so used to being dismissed or misunderstood in a culture that isn't particularly supportive to artists, but then also that— yeah, that's just, like, my own personal recovery of, like, being witnessed in the world. All of that is to say that, like, historically my relationships to Instagram has been, like, big lurker energy, right? [Amelia laughs] Like, I have it so that I exist. I have it so that I can post about a [starts using a funny voice] thing I'm doing, "Hey guys, come to my show, come to my thing," which I'm saying it like that but—

Amelia [00:08:58] I really love this voice of your inner marketer [laughs heartily]—

Melissa [00:09:03] Apparently, she's got feelings about—

Amelia [00:09:04] I got to say, like an inner critic has entered the chat [laughs].

Melissa [00:09:10] It's real— it's real. And I keep saying the word historically because I'm like, "Oh, that's been changing in a big way." And I'm like, "Oh, marketing is sexy."

Amelia [00:09:20] Yeah.

Melissa [00:09:20] I just needed to look at it in a really different way. This is a big piece for me is that for so long and this is also about healing so much of myself through ballet training and dance training and being a performer on stage.

Melissa [00:09:36] Growing up as someone who was always on stage and really understood myself in relationship to, like, [sings "shiny performer"] shiny performer and audience who comes to look at me be a shiny performer. I sort of just, like, had that same relationship set up to have that.

Melissa [00:09:54] We even call it an audience on social media. But every time I would engage the platform with like, "Hello, world, look at me." It just was like— it fell so flat internally, it felt gross. It felt— not even gross necessarily, but just felt really inauthentic and think we all know this is trying too hard. And then, there was also no traction, really, I guess, I don't know. I maintain like an audience of under a thousand people or, like, 1200 people. That was mostly people I knew, right?

Amelia [00:10:29] Yeah.

Melissa [00:10:30] And then, shifting my relationship to Instagram as something that could actually be for other people, in service to other people. And actually, not about me at all, but was like, "Oh, I can put things on the Internet that come from me. So, they are about me." But that that's not the purpose. The purpose is not to get looked at and to get attention and to get likes or whatever. It's to create something that's actually maybe feeding— just like lol— it's called a feed— like feed [Amelia giggles]. Like, actually a gift—

Amelia [00:11:05] Mm.

Melissa [00:11:05] Actually a source of real nourishment to people. And that was like, well, twisting my brain a little bit because it just hadn't— in the years past, had that— had that kind of relationship to being witnessed so much.

Amelia [00:11:21] Yeah, there are so many threads there I think are really beautiful and point to these tensions around social media. I can definitely see the ways that for a performer, stepping from a physical stage to a social media stage may seem like a sort of seamless transition. You're like, "That's both a stage," but I think it is actually pretty radically different in that a physical stage in a room— like people have to enter the room to engage with you and you've created a container in that way. And I think especially with dance performance, like it is bound by time, the performance is happening or it's not [laughs softly]—

Melissa [00:12:01] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:12:02] Like— and you're there or you're not, and it's with the people who are present. I mean, I understand there are recordings and other things, but on social media that's so different, right? You never know who's in the room. You never know who is joining you or you never know if anyone's going to join you. So, I can— I can see how there are those seeds of performance in both.

Amelia [00:12:23] But how are the lived experience of that would be very different? And also, then talking about the shift that you're making. My memories of Instagram, like when I first got on in what, 2012, it was a lot of just, like, sharing our lives. And so, it was very personal and about you and pictures of yourself.

Amelia [00:12:43] And then, we saw kind of the rise of the early influencers, and then it really was this, like, self, self, self, self, self-moment. And I'm hearing you describe, like, a shift to almost more of, like, an offering model. And it's maybe last— if we want to use your— your feed or your— the feed metaphor, we think of it as, like, a table. It's like instead of bringing yourself to dinner, you're bringing a dish to dinner, you're trying to bring something that people can appreciate and savor.

Amelia [00:13:13] But I think that's still like— you don't know who's going to say and you don't know who's just going to consume it and shit it out later and never, you know— [laughs] to be super literal. Sorry, folks. So, like, I want to kind of go more into what that has meant for you. I can see the ways it would feel very different, but I'm wondering if the tensions are still there. So, tell me more about— maybe you can give an example of, like, what's a way you used to show up and, like, what's a way that you're like offering something now? How are those different?

Melissa [00:13:44] Yeah, totally. So, I'll go into a little bit of, like, the thinking behind the experiment itself. So, this was last summer, Summer '22, and I actually heard somebody else— it was an interview on another podcast, someone kind of in passing was like, "Oh yeah, I don't follow anybody on Instagram anymore. That way I can still maintain a presence. But then I have to actually go look someone up if I want to see how they're doing."

Melissa [00:14:10] So, I actually have to, like, consider people, I have to consider what I cared to be looking at instead of just logging on and, like, you know, full force, you know, vacuum hose, sucking up whatever shows up.

Amelia [00:14:26] [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa [00:14:27] And I was like, "Whoa, that is insane." And as someone who is always researching, my attention— where is my attention going? What is the spark— woo— shininess that my attention is attracted to? I was like, "Wow, that sounds like a really beautiful experiment to, like, reset thy attention and do this, like, kind of deep clean without having to disappear from the app."

Melissa [00:14:53] Because I had always, you know, for years, been like, "I'm deleting it today," and back on next week, "I'm deleting it today." And so, I was like, "I wonder what it would be like if I don't actually disappear from the app. I just want to see what it will feel like if I follow no one and then I open up to the void, click on app, and it's just vast nothingness."

Melissa [00:15:16] And of course, everybody I told [Amelia chuckles] as I was leading up to this, they're like, "You're just gonna get ads, you freak. [Amelia laughs heartily and Melissa joins in] You're not going to get to experience a black box of nothingness." Yeah, but I didn't care, I did it anyway.

Melissa [00:15:32] And so, prior to that, like, things that I would post would be, like, sort of what you were describing before. Like, hmm— honestly, Amelia, at this point this shit I was posting was just, like, trying too hard stuff. I don't know like here's a maybe selfie. Does anybody think I'm cool?

Amelia [00:15:52] Mmm.

Melissa [00:15:52] Yes, or no? Just because I— I— it was such a limit of my own imagination of what else it could be?

Amelia [00:15:59] Yeah.

Melissa [00:15:59] I felt really funneled into, like, performing a version of myself and putting it out there to be like, "[Questioning sound] Anybody? Any takers?"

Amelia [00:16:11] [Laughs] Yeah, it's that sort of posting out of— whether it's a genuine desire for affirmation or just copying everyone else's desire for affirmation in the space. I feel that. I've definitely— used to do that a lot.

Melissa [00:16:21] Yeah, I think it was, like, obligation— it felt like a little bit obligatory, right?

Amelia [00:16:27] Mm. Mmhm.

Melissa [00:16:27] Like, I'm still alive. Let me just put a little crumble here [Amelia laughs]. So, you of course know this because you've done this and maybe other listeners know this, but Instagram makes it truly almost impossible to do such of a task because, one, it's a radical act of taking your attention back from the app—

Amelia [00:16:49] Mmhm.

Melissa [00:16:49] But still participating in the app. And so, what would happen is I think it— I think around that time, I think I had 1500 followers or something and I could only delete a hundred people a day.

Amelia [00:17:03] Yeah. And just to be clear, you're not deleting your followers. You're deleting the people you're following.

Melissa [00:17:08] Oh, yes— followees. Followees.

Amelia [00:17:10] Yeah. [Chuckles] There's not a good word for that. But I just want folks at home to realize you're not getting rid of everyone following you, the people following you—

Melissa [00:17:17] Thank you. Yes.

Amelia [00:17:17] Are still there in following you, but you are unfollowing everyone that you have followed. You are no longer a follower of anyone.

Melissa [00:17:25] Correct. Yes. We were joking before we started recording. Pulling a Beyoncé. Yes.

Amelia [00:17:30] Yes [laughs].

Melissa [00:17:30] I wanted to see that glorious golden goose egg zero under following no one. So, yes. And it felt— Amelia, it brought up so many crazy feelings around, like, you know, people that I had been following for ten, 11 years, people that I went to—

Amelia [00:17:49] Mmhm.

Melissa [00:17:49] High school with, people that were, like, really important contacts, people that I'm like, "Oh, I met you at this interesting festival in Montreal in 2012. Like, I'm never going to— how am I going to find you again?" So, I did download all of my contacts, had to figure out a way to do that and, like, put it in a spreadsheet, kind of a Rolodex— my, my— [Amelia chuckles heartily] remarkable— I actually have my contacts and then I would sit there every day for two weeks and do my little executioner dance of swiping unfollow one by one. And I did that. I stayed in that place of following zero people for six months. I just now— it was like in the last month I've started following people again.

Amelia [00:18:39] Take me back to that moment, those two weeks where you're unfollowing people. So—

Melissa [00:18:45] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:18:45] Instagram limits how many people you can unfollow at a time. So, you know, you can only do your, what, 100 a day or something. Hence why it took two weeks to unfollow 1500 people. You describe, like who the people are, why that would be weird. But how are you processing that? Especially because I know you do work on grief in your creative practice, were you thinking of it as a grief process? Were you grieving something about those relationships or yourself or your relationship to the app during that time?

Melissa [00:19:15] Mm mmhm mmhm. There were— it was— I don't know— there's a part of me that's like, "Wow, it's so funny to talk about something like, so mundane as like— just like what you— what choices you're making on social media that would, like, bring up all these intense emotions."

Amelia [00:19:33] Mm. Mmhm.

Melissa [00:19:34] But yeah, it really did. You know, I think the strongest emotion it brought up was, like, the recognition of how much codependency and people pleasing is all tangled up within who I choose to follow. I noticed a lot of people started unfollowing me. Like, 600 people stopped following me once I went through this process.

Amelia [00:19:59] Wow.

Melissa [00:20:00] And that was like, "Wait, this isn't a two-way street. What's— what's happening here?"

Amelia [00:20:06] Yeah.

Melissa [00:20:07] But of course it is. Of course, it is. And it— I mean, it was like— it felt like a little mini-12-step process, like recovery process in a very concentrated amount of time, because it brought me to this clarity of like, "If I am getting so razor sharp clear on what I do and don't want to consume and have my attention on, I wish nothing but that for everybody that is currently in my sphere." You know, I hope people are taking a swift, sharp blade to—

Amelia [00:20:46] Yeah.

Melissa [00:20:46] What it is they're taking in because it's— it's do or die a little bit. [Amelia chuckles] It just feels like it's only going to keep continuing how much is vying for our attention. And so, that was strangely, like, a grief process of like— yeah, there was a lot of letting go, a lot of surrendering, a lot of surprise at how it really shook up the snow globe of a lot of my relationship to how I'm witnessed, to how I want to be seen, how I actually am seen, and how those are incongruent potentially.

Melissa [00:21:21] I had to be really willing to be misunderstood by people who were like, "Oh, this house is going to start falling on me. Okay, well, [Amelia laughs softly] I didn't like her anyway." [Amelia laughs heartily] Whereas if I hadn't made this choice, things could just continue being kind of copacetic and easy—

Amelia [00:21:40] Yeah.

Melissa [00:21:41] And fine and chill between me and all these people on the Internet [laughs wearily].

Amelia [00:21:43] Yeah. I mean, I think that fear and that— that specific, like, inner monologue is also so real. It's the entire motivation behind the mute button, right? Like, that you can still follow someone but mute them and not see their posts—

Melissa [00:21:57] Right!

Amelia [00:21:57] Which to me is like— I mean, power to people who want to protect their peace. I get it. Some of us like— we don't have choices about relationships you're in or not in. But normally when I would get the urge to do that I'm like, “Amelia, you're just copping out of a hard interaction. And we do hard things."

Melissa [00:22:13] Yo.

Amelia [00:22:14] In this— this lifetime, in the current lifetime I am in, [laughs] I'm doing hard things instead of avoiding them, though no judgment to other people who mute or not. But I think that that really strikes me as, like, a very shared fear and dilemma so many of us have.

Amelia [00:22:31] And I think there's something nice to the like, "I'm going to follow no one." Like, the radical nature of that chop, that's like— it's no longer personal, even though you are dealing with those personal feelings, some people may take it personally, and you just have to accept that, surrender to that. But at the same time, it's like, "No, there's no favorites. There's no like, 'I'm keeping you, but not you.' It's like you're all going."

Melissa [00:22:53] Correct.

Amelia [00:22:53] And I feel like that's a very— I don't know if it's an artist's impulse or for me, like, a fire sign impulse of, like, this is forest fire time. We are burning [laughs] so that we can— we can regrow—

Melissa [00:23:08] Mm mm mmhm.

Amelia [00:23:08] And what you're regrowing there is your attention, which I completely agree is one of our most precious resources. When you join my mailing list, you get an email with the subject, "Your attention is sacred," because it's so important to me to appreciate attention and respect other people's attention. And on the apps, it's an attention economy. So, when you take your attention back, you're like telling Instagram, like, "I'm no longer giving you my coins, like it's all gone, you get nothing." And so, I'm wondering then, like, was there, like, a renaissance of your attention after you were— when you were following no one? Like, what happened when you got to zero and over the next six months?

Melissa [00:23:52] Mm mmhm. Love that phrase. Absolutely. 100%. Yes. There really was. Like, I have the fairy tale [Amelia laughs heartily] to tell. What happened was really exciting thing, particularly for my artists out there— the particularly exciting thing was when I would log on because I was still, like, impulsively going to the app to be like, "Mm mm. I need a hit."

Amelia [00:24:20] [Laughs] Yeah.

Melissa [00:24:20] And nothing would be there. It was like— except stupid ads. It was like, "Okay, if I am still choosing to be here. Like, what— what— what now? What— what's going—"

Amelia [00:24:32] Mmhm.

Melissa [00:24:32] "To be here for me?" And Amelia, I tell you what, this, like, raging river of expression just came pouring forth. It gave me that freedom of, like, early LiveJournal, Myspace [Amelia laughs] days where, like, you could comment and like stuff in the, like, O.G. blogosphere, whatever those— that early iteration of social media was. But it really was a strange void. And I got that safety, that permission, that spaciousness of like— I knew people were still following me, but because I couldn't see them, it felt like it was just me and the abyss.

Amelia [00:25:20] Yeah.

Melissa [00:25:20] And I got to play.

Amelia [00:25:22] Yeah.

Melissa [00:25:23] So suddenly— so now what my account looks like is I turned into a niche meme queen where I [Amelia giggles] take photos that I have taken and put my little words, my little poems, my little words on them, and then post to the Internet. And I have so much fun. It came kind of, like, serendipitously. There was no strategy. I was not like, "Okay, let me like sit down and figure out what my brand strategy is on Instagram." It just was like, "Okay, let's just throw some noodles at the wall and play, because suddenly this space doesn't feel like all the air has been sucked out of the room."

Amelia [00:26:09] Yeah. Do you— I'm just gonna ask a blunt question— do you care if your posts get likes? Do you think about numbers anymore? Like, how does— how does— because that's still a piece of it. Like, you're still posting. People can see you. What's your relationship to those metrics? And is it different than before?

Melissa [00:26:28] It's so bizarre. This is just so typical. But it was like the minute I kind of stopped caring about it was the minute like tons of people that I do not know started following me, which I hadn't had that experience. I feel like every influencer, micro influencer, big influencer goes through that moment of like, "Oh, now people who don't know me are following me. And it's not—"

Amelia [00:26:52] Yeah.

Melissa [00:26:52] "Just like a thousand people I know," but I think the last thing I posted got, like, the most sort of engagement of anything I've ever posted. The way that I post now feels so just like, “Bibbidi bobbidi, let me just put some words on a thing and send it. Here we go.”

Melissa [00:27:11] And somehow that, like, lack of preciousness about it seems to be resonating. And there's something energetically about that that, like, resonates with people. And so, now my posts are shared a lot and liked a lot and things that like— that's just not a way that I had engaged in that space before.

Melissa [00:27:35] But if I'm really being honest about your question, like your actual question is, "Do I care if people like it or not?" I would say that there still is— I think we have kind of like of— what I'm about to say, I feel like there's— like a— we reject this idea because it feels like, "Ooh, maybe that's a little vain," but I have to be honest about the fact that now that there are more people who are engaging with my work, people that message me to say, "Thank you so much for this dish you brought to the dinner table [laughs lightly]," to go back to your earlier metaphor, I'm like, "Cool. That is fuel in my tank. That feels really fun. I'm going to keep doing this."

Amelia [00:28:20] Yeah.

Melissa [00:28:21] If zero people— if it was absolute crickets, it's hard to say, but it doesn't feel like work in the way that social media has always felt before. Just feels like big play time energy that is received with so much lightness. And so, there just feels like this reciprocity, an exchange of attention and energy there.

Amelia [00:28:45] Did you start to see that engagement when you were still following no one or did it start to grow when you started following people again?

Melissa [00:28:51] Oh, it was before. It was kind of immediately maybe. It's hard to remember now. I'd have to go back and look, but I think there was a period where I was just like, "I'm in the comatose shavasana resting state of I'm not posting anything. I'm not following anybody. I'm just letting some repair happen, I think. Letting the bones reset." And then— you asked me earlier, like, "Did I have a renaissance of attention?"

Melissa [00:29:19] And I noticed that I definitely was spending less time than usual on the app. Like, I was in, kind of, a little retreat for my attention. And so, I was writing a lot more and taking pictures a lot more. And it kind of just happened seamlessly, like, "Oh, let me just put these things together." And then, as soon as I started posting those people were like, "Hmm, hmm. I see myself reflected in these words, and so I'm going to share it on stories."

Amelia [00:29:47] Yeah, well, it sounds like, in a funny way, stepping away from Instagram, unfollowing people, you actually ended up producing one of the most, like, Instagram-friendly art pieces of your career [chuckles softly], right? Because I think what Instagram does best, right, is pictures and words. And so, now you— you have this body of work you're creating that is images and words but it's like when you were still so in the midst of everyone else's work on the app, you couldn't access that for yourself and you had to, like, pull back and then step there. And then— then it came forth, I guess is what it sounds like. So, tell me about what did you take away from this experiment and when did you know it was over?

Melissa [00:30:27] Mm mmhm. That's a great question. I think I'll start with the second one first. I started getting itchy like around month five. And I started feeling like, "Wow. I actually don't have a clue what's happening in the world. I'm missing a lot of events. I'm missing out. I actually am totally not knowing about a lot of things that I really would like to know about."

Melissa [00:30:53] And I— I use Instagram as, like, such a mind expander, you know, there's like people that I was following previously where it's like, "Man, your content really just blows up in my brain a little bit and I grow." So, there was a part of me that started missing that. And truth be told, my BFF is private, so I couldn't ever see her like [Amelia laughs heartily] cool, hot stories.

Amelia [00:31:19] Yeah.

Melissa [00:31:20] Yeah. So, I think I just started feeling like there will be an end to this experiment because I do want to— I do actually care about what other people have to say and what other people are producing on the Internet. I had a lot of anxiety about the moment of returning. I am not someone who is, like, planning to get married, maybe ever, but— like to have a wedding, like a big traditional wedding and one of the reasons is because I think about who's in and who's out. Who do we invite? Who do we not? Aunt Susan doesn't get the invite, [Amelia laughs heartily] she's going to be pissed and she's going to remember it forever.

Amelia [00:31:59] Yeah.

Melissa [00:32:00] It's like, man, who are my Aunt Susan's like— there's a lot of people I don't want to immediately follow everybody again.

Amelia [00:32:07] Yeah. So, you had to actually encounter— it's like before when it wasn't personal. Now that you're going to go back, it's personal. Yeah.

Melissa [00:32:13] Now it's personal. You're in or you're out. So, I think about that. And then the other thing you asked, like, what I really learned from it. I think one of the biggest things, and I kind of already mentioned it, is that distinction between when you do post, when you do put something out into the world, like what— who is it for? What is it for? Who is it for? And not that everything has to have some sort of altruistic— like be of service. Sometimes we just want to see, like, cool selfies of people looking hot. Like, that's great, that's fine. And I mean, you can argue that that's a service to the world [Amelia laughs].

Melissa [00:32:54] But yeah, just to have in that sort of core essence of like, are you posting because you're hungry, because you're not being fed and you're— you're— there's some kind of, like, need that needs to get met by engaging with people in this kind of transactional way that Instagram does so well. Because I notice for myself that suddenly when things weren't about me, but I could share these thoughts, these parables, these— yeah— reflections on reality, I guess— it feels like it's not so wrapped up in, like, my ego when I— when it's not so much about me. And it's a gift to the people, even if three people look at it.

Amelia [00:33:42] Yeah, it's so interesting to hear you reflect on this because we actually have opposite impulses. I understand what you're saying. You're like, "I wasn't following anyone, so I didn't have to be, like, predetermined or projecting or, like, worrying about them when I was sharing so I could share from a more genuine place, like an artist making an offering of their art." But for me, I think because I don't consider myself an artist necessarily or not as one of my primary identities, but it was like, what I heard you say is, "When I followed no one, it made me feel like my ego wasn't as present in the posting, in the sharing." And for me, I'm like, "If I follow no one, then it's pure ego [laughs and Melissa joins]. Only me. And all I'm doing is, like, showing up and asking them for attention when I'm not giving it in return."

Melissa [00:34:28] Oh wow. Yes. Mmhm.

Amelia [00:34:29] I don't think either one of us is wrong, but it's just funny. Like, we can both be right, but I feel completely opposite to how you do.

Melissa [00:34:37] I mean, I imagine, like, from the outside in, there was this part of me that was just like, "Dammit, people are like gonna come to my page and be like, 'Who's this bitch following no one? She just thinks she all that [Amelia laughs heartily]." And it's all like, "Oh, you think you're Beyoncé. Is that why you think you're Beyoncé?"

Amelia [00:34:49] [Continues to laugh heartily] Yeah.

Melissa [00:34:49] "You think you don't need to, like, know about other people, okay? Because you're just that great all by yourself, queen. Okay."

Amelia [00:35:02] Yeah.

Melissa [00:35:04] Which is another sort of, like, grief moment, letting go a moment like, [makes a sound] okay, codependency testing, where I'm like, "Yeah, I have to just let people think that maybe I think I'm Beyoncé [laughs]."

Amelia [00:35:17] Yeah. I think that's really helpful too. What I think is just a constant thread in everything that you're sharing is that you're very attuned to yourself and your creative needs, your energetic needs, your creative practice, your energetic sovereignty.

Amelia [00:35:34] And I've heard you say multiple times, like you can feel when it gets itchy, like you can tell when something is out of alignment or not right, and you follow what you need from there, which I think is just such a powerful practice. And I think its why people are coming to listen to Off the Grid at this stage. Like, everybody's itchy on Instagram, you're the only person I know who is like, "I'm thriving here right now," [Amelia laughs heartily and Melissa joins] which I love.

Amelia [00:36:03] But part of the reason I was so excited to have this conversation with you is, like, I want people to hear that, you know, you're itchy and you can leave like I did, or you can follow no one for a while, or you can post nothing for a while.

Amelia [00:36:16] Like, there are a lot of ways to handle that itch. There are a lot of ways to recenter and realign. There are so many experiments you can do in that process, and I think that it depends on, you know, what you need. Like, is codependency part of the core wound that's making this really itchy for you and so, you have to deal with that and you need this sort of approach or—

Melissa [00:36:38] Mmm.

Amelia [00:36:38] Do you need something else? And I also think it's really beautiful to follow that when, again, it brings you back to the platform. Maybe I shared this in our, "Five stages of Leaving Social Media," episode, which tracks a little bit onto your experience that sort of, like, unfollowing everyone, had a period of rest and retreat, had a creative outpouring of ideas and things [laughs], putting it everywhere and then, kind of settling into more of a rhythm and a steady flow for yourself.

Amelia [00:37:05] And then, eventually getting to that last piece I share in that episode of, like, the sort of loneliness, the feeling like, "Well, where am I now?" Like, I went through what I needed to do on my personal journey and where does that leave me in relationship to other people and to you that led you back to following people on your account? You know, for me, leaving social media was very much about leaving being a personal brand on the Internet. Like, I just stopped that. And I— even when I run my business or Off the Grid, like they're not influencer models the way that being a personal brand on Instagram I think always is.

Amelia [00:37:40] But I share that to say, like, social media for— it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We're all in the shades of gray and we're not here to judge the choices anyone makes. What we're here to do is interrupt that like, "We're all on social media and we're all unhappy about it and we just keep doing it all the time because what we're supposed to do," that's what needs, like, the break. And then, from there, there are so many paths, right? You know, you and I have very different paths for that, but what we've both been able to do is like recenter, realign, find ourselves in our creativity again.

Melissa [00:38:12] Well said. Yeah. Just— and you used the word experiment, it's like whatever the choices one might make, you would call an experiment. It's like engaging with that sense of [makes a sound] we'll see what happens. This could suck, and I might change my mind tomorrow. That non-preciousness, that sense of play and curiosity and like, just putting on the, like, science goggles for a second. Like, well, let's see what happens if I try this and really contend with like, I think the reason people don't do that is because it's like, "Oh, but then people are going to see me trying something different." And I don't know why that is so scary for us, but it's freaking paralyzing to be witnessed, like not having it all figured out or not being a locked-in identity.

Amelia [00:39:03] Yeah, and I do think it's this very specific paradox on social media and on Instagram, I think— the way that we all feel so compelled and, like, we're supposed to be these, like, perfectly wrapped selves, like in our niche and with our cute bio and everything's on brand and simultaneously we're supposed to be really vulnerable, super authentic, like messy middle humans. And like— I feel like that is the original influencer model, right, is like turning being a real human into a personal brand.

Amelia [00:39:41] And the rest of us are just, like, living in the wake of that total fracturing of identity that happens when you try to do that. And that leads to that like desiccation, that like dehydration, a lot of lost-ness, a lot of itchiness. It just feels bad on an identity or existential level, let alone like this conversation. We're not really getting into, you know, all of the tech implications and bigger picture world implications.

Amelia [00:40:13] If you want to talk about that, go listen to my conversation with Christy Harrison from this season or my conversation with Vickie Curtis from last season. But I love that here we're really bringing it to that spiritual level in the sense that that's the source of our creativity and life force. Yeah. Melissa, is there anything else you want to share about your experiment or your current relationship to social media as we start to wrap up?

Melissa [00:40:40] Yeah. So— okay, things that I would like to share with people. I am starting a podcast that I would love people to know about. You have coached me on the sidelines of like [Amelia giggles], "Yeah, do it, baby." And if everybody goes and listens to it, maybe that will be able to make me be able to get Amelia on board as my [Amelia giggles] NPR producer. It's called Witch Sweat—

Amelia [00:41:04] Mm.

Melissa [00:41:05] And I've been wanting to have podcast forever, but absolutely the like— the fuel became more in the tank through this period of tension retreat. But that podcast is about movement, the body, intuitive relationships, creative relationships with the body and creative practice— spiritual self-inquiry. At least I think that's what it's about.

Melissa [00:41:28] As you know, these things, kind of, have their own lives and we'll see what it is going to be. And I made a little mini-zine called Attention Reset, that's really a reflection— I don't go into the nitty gritty of what we've just been talking about, but I made it as a guide to help people who are looking for more juicy, non-desiccated strategies [Amelia chuckles softly] for opening up the aperture of attention and just being able to fall in love with the world off of your phone a little bit more through what you're looking at, what you're paying attention to. So, that's a really fun little ditty.

Amelia [00:42:09] Is it on your website [laughs]?

Melissa [00:42:11] Yes, all of those things— well, by the time this episode comes out, [Amelia laughs] those things will be on my website—

Amelia [00:42:17] On your website, great.

Melissa [00:42:17] Which is melissaword.com, and then my Instagram where I'm playing and apparently thriving, according to you, which is funny to think about, where I am playing on Instagram is at @MelissaWordStudio just continuing to— to see what is alive and juicy in that space.

Amelia [00:42:37] Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Melissa. We'll link to all of that in the show notes, of course, so folks can head there. I'm very excited for this zine. If this conversation has inspired you to really want to change your relationship to social media, you can download the Leaving Social Media Toolkit.

Amelia [00:42:55] And if you do an experiment of following no one or any other social media experiment, please reach out. Let me know. Let Melissa know. Tell us what it's like and maybe you too can come on the pod and share your story and we'll just talk [Melissa laughs] all about the experiments we're doing on social media that's— or off social media— on and off social media. That's what we're here for. So, Melissa, [outro music begins to play quietly] thank you again for your time. I loved this conversation. Listeners, thank you for listening. And until next time, we will see you off the grid.

Amelia [00:43:32] Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Find links and resources in the show notes and don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig. That's softersounds dot studio slash b-y-e-i-g.

Amelia [00:43:46] This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Purple Planet and our logo is by n'atelier Studio.

Amelia [00:43:55] If you'd like to make a podcast of your own, we'd love to help. Find more about our services at softersounds.studio. Until next time, we'll see you Off the Grid.