💸 How to Make $$$ with Your Friends — with Taylor Elyse Morrison

Amelia [00:00:02]

[Music begins to play, overlapping with the introduction to the episode] Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients.

Amelia [00:00:08]

I'm Amelia Hruby, writer, speaker, and founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. On this show, I share stories, strategies, and experiments for growing your business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty.

Amelia [00:00:22]

Download your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig and join us as we do it all Off the Grid [music jams and fades out].

Amelia Hruby [00:01:15]:

Hello, hello and welcome or welcome back to Off the Grid, your favorite podcast about leaving social media without losing all your clients. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby. I am the founder of Softer Sounds Podcast Studio, and I have been doing business with no social media for over two years now and let me report that I am loving it. We are currently nearing the end of season two of the show, and I've been in what I was calling our late summer interview series that is now our early fall interview series, and this is the penultimate episode of that series. We've had so many great conversations.

Amelia Hruby [00:01:57]:

Today's is no exception, and I hope that you will take some time to listen to any that you missed to enjoy the thoughts and work of these creators and small business owners and former influencers that I've been talking to. And if you feel so called, maybe even to leave the show a quick review. Let us know what you think and how much you've been enjoying these conversations. Before I introduce today's guest, I also want to share a little sneak peek surprise of something coming up. So I have just launched a new website for Off the Grid, this here podcast. If you go to offthegrid.fun in any web browser of your choosing, you will now find the new home of our show. I'm so excited for this new site. I feel like as the podcast has grown, it really deserved a space of its own separate from the Softer Sounds Podcast Studio site, and I'm just thrilled to be sharing it with you.

Amelia Hruby [00:02:55]:

So go ahead and head to offthegrid.fun. Check it out. I hope you enjoy it. And if you are a little Internet sleuth out there, you will also on that site find a link to something coming up soon for our Off the Grid fam. Going to be launching the next big thing for the show on Friday, October 13th. And there is a little sneak preview on the new Off the Grid site for you already. So head to offthegrid.fun, take a sneak peek and of course, keep your ears on the podfeed to learn what's coming up next soon. So today on the show I am welcoming back my dear friend and co-founder Taylor Elise Morrison.

Amelia Hruby [00:03:41]:

Taylor is a sought after speaker, facilitator and coach. She's the founder of the company Inner Workout and the author of the book Inner Workout. And together we co-founded the Lifestyle Business League just about a year ago now to support business owners who want to grow their way. In this episode we are talking all about one of my favorite things, which is how to work and make money with your friends. Taylor and I have been friends for over five years. We have worked together in so many different capacities which you'll hear about in the episode. And through all of that we were able to co-found a company and create something really special, really supportive and do it in a way that just feels nourishing for both of us. I think that our friendship has grown stronger through working together and I really wanted to bring that to the show because something I hear from a lot of listeners is that running a business can feel lonely.

Amelia Hruby [00:04:45]:

Being an artist can feel lonely and part of the reason we're turning to social media is to feel less alone. But what if we didn't have to have social media to feel less alone? What if we could build beautiful collaborations and partnerships with biz friends new and old and in feeling connected in those ways that gave us the support and the inspiration we needed to step away from social media altogether. So today's episode is stepping into that visionary space. I can't wait for you to hear everything Taylor and I are talking about. And of course, if you are looking for biz friends of your own, I hope that you will join us in the Lifestyle Business League there's a link in the show notes to learn more and apply today. If you are a small business owner, creative or artist or entrepreneur who wants to meet new people, feel more supported and chart your own path forward in the season and year ahead, I truly hope that you'll join us. So all of that shared, let's go ahead and dive on into this episode.

Amelia Hruby [00:05:54]:

Hi, Taylor. Welcome back to Off the Grid.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:05:57]:

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

Amelia Hruby [00:05:59]:

You are joining a very special crew of people who've been on the show twice, that's currently just you and grace, my actual biz BFFs, my co-workers, as I think of you and talk to my partner about you. People I voice message basically every day I show up at my desk.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:06:15]:

Yep.

Amelia Hruby [00:06:16]:

So today we are here to talk about how to work with your friends and I'm really excited to have this conversation because the way I think of it, I've encountered two types of people. The people who just work with their friends all the time, and they're like, yeah, it's no big deal. And the people who are like, I have a horror story about working with a friend, and I will never do that again. So in this episode, I'm thinking of our goal as sharing many of the ways that we've worked together, the things we think that are great about working with friends, some challenges we've faced in working with friends, either ourselves or things we've seen our friends face in those partnerships and hopefully inspiring more people to see that they can work with their friends, too. So why don't we kick things off by just talking a little bit about some of the ways we've worked together? So when I think way back, we kind of met each other in the context of working together, which was that we were both interning for the same organization. You were ending your time as an intern as I was beginning my time. So probably our first ever meeting was like a working meeting where you were passing off info.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:07:30]:

Yeah. You were still working for the university. Oh, my gosh, this is a throwback.

Amelia Hruby [00:07:35]:

Yeah. So I think our first time meeting, we were having a working meeting. What are some of the ways you remember us working together toward the beginning of our friendship?

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:07:44]:

Yeah. So our next thing working together was, I believe, co-hosting a workshop with our friend Mandy, who at the time had a company called The Glossary. And we had this New Year's situation where I talked about self care, you talked about creating mantras, and it was this lovely gathering for people to kind of set the tone for the year. So that's one of the other early ones I remember. And then there was yeah, just general, this was back when we were both active on Instagram in a different way than we are now. So lots of different Instagram things shouting each other out, maybe going on lives together.

Amelia Hruby [00:08:25]:

Yeah, we definitely did plenty of, like I wouldn't even call them collaborations. That's sort of what they are. But we weren't even thinking of them that formally. Just like, I'm going to share your thing that's happening, or you're going to share my thing that's happening. And then I remember when you were starting Inner Workout I remember some of the early gatherings and classes you were hosting and coming to a space where you did, like, a beta workshop.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:08:53]:

I totally forgot about this. This is unlocking memories for me. Yeah. When Inner Workout was this practice I had developed, and it's evolved so much since then. You were one of my beta testers. Yeah.

Amelia Hruby [00:09:05]:

And it was so lovely. Yeah, it was a map based practice. I think me and maybe five or six other people came. It was like a weekend morning, and we did it, and we gave you feedback, and that was a wonderful time. I loved being part of the early days of Inner Workout. After that, we also did some brand partnership work together. So you had a connection at the company Bando. And I remember when I was in the process of launching my book, you had put me in touch with them for an opportunity, and then we also ended up doing an International Women's Day Live and a paid newsletter.

Amelia Hruby [00:09:46]:

We got paid to write a newsletter for them. And that really came about through your PR connections and other things. And I felt at the time, I'm sure I said this to you, but I'll say it again, I was really touched and honored that you shared that connection with me and spoke with me so highly and made that I just felt really treasured and you made it so easy for me and it's a big deal to share a press contact, to pass someone along and pave that road for them. So I was just really touched and I still appreciate that so much.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:10:23]:

Well, thank you. Yeah, at the time, I think it just felt like a no-brainer, but it was because we had built that relationship where I knew you as a friend, but I also had collaborated with you in other ways, so I knew you were going to do what you said you were going to do. I knew from a values perspective that you weren't going to say anything out of left field where I'm like, I introduced you to her, sorry about that. There's just a deep sense of trust there.

Amelia Hruby [00:10:52]:

Yeah, definitely. And I think it has evolved. That deep sense of trust has continued to evolve. And so now we've also worked together in the context of my company Softer Sounds. We produced a private podcast for you and then we co-founded a business together.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:11:15]:

Yeah, just casually founded a business. But honestly, it feels kind of casually like that whole process was so easy, but again, it felt easy because of the groundwork that I don't even think either of us realized we were laying for years before that.

Amelia Hruby [00:11:31]:

Yeah, exactly. I think this is definitely the point in the conversation where if I was a listener, I would be like, yeah, that's really nice for you, Amelia and Taylor, but this is actually hard to do. So I wanted to take us from reminiscing about all the ways that we've worked together into talking about the amazing things and the not so amazing things of working with your friends. So let's start with the great stuff. What do you think are some of the great things about working with friends, like not just working with me? Because I know you've also done lots of collaborations with other friends. What are things you've enjoyed about that and maybe you learned from that?

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:12:13]:

Yeah, so one, from just a pure Enneagram Three perspective, which you are also an Enneagram Three, something that we're good at and tend to really enjoy is like, seeing other people realize their potential. I don't know if there's a better way to say that. And I think there's something about when I introduce you to Bando or other things like that, it's like, this is an opportunity for Amelia's book to get in the hands of more people. And like, I want that so much for you because you're my friend. I want you to succeed. Another thing that comes to mind is this opportunity to really grow together. And it's so funny, like, you are literally unlocking memories for me where I'm like, oh yeah, that did happen. Or, yeah, we were literal babies at that French bakery talking about these things, and look at where we are now. And there's something about collaborating on these little instagram lives where maybe like, 20 people came and it felt like a big deal that 20 people came to the types of things that we talk about in voice notes now and to hold space for that progress and growth for someone else and sometimes I get to mirror that back to you and you do the same thing for me.

Amelia Hruby [00:13:33]:

Yeah, I definitely have this sense that we have grown up together as business owners and as humans, as friends. And those are both really intertwined for us. And I think that our friendship holds a really safe and sacred space for me to have really big dreams and also feel like what I'm doing is enough. And I need that space so much. And I think that I've only ever found it when I'm able to have the combo of friendship and shared business ownership. The way I said that makes it sound like I have to start a business with all my friends, which, as a capricorn rising, I probably do. But what I mean is there's just something really special about being able to show up in our friendship as myself and my business owner self. Because I've noticed that I can't show up as my business owner self in all my friendships and that's perfectly okay, but I really appreciate that I can here.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:14:38]:

I agree so much. It's just like this very particular journey, and you and I both have really supportive partners who can't fully relate to everything that we've been through. And it's not that they don't want to be there for us, it's just that they can't empathize in the same way. So to have that level of relationship and partnership with someone else is really special.

Amelia Hruby [00:14:59]:

Yeah, you just get to feel supported on multiple levels. And I think that's such a nice thing just about working with friends in general. I have other beloved friends that I collaborate with. I already mentioned grace at the beginning of this episode. That's another person that I get to move in and out of space with, from being co-teachers to being friends to being I'll go to her for spiritual mentorship sometimes. She'll come to me for podcast mentorship at times. And we're really able to flow in a really non-hierarchical way. Like, we can let each other lead when it makes sense and feels good, but it doesn't feel like there's a sort of hierarchy in our friendship of like someone is more experienced, evolved, whatever it may be. We're really able to meet each other in the same place with our differences intact.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:15:58]:

And I want to push into what you just said about with our differences intact. The other thing that I think is beautiful and I've primarily experienced collaborating, partnering with friends who have different businesses than me. So that's the experience that I'm speaking from. But you just bring different perspectives. Like, you started in academia, I started in corporate, I've done a lot of work in and around startups. So there are perspectives and frameworks, ways that I'll look at a situation that are so different than ways that you will look at a situation. And I think that's really valuable. That's not to say there's not value if you're a photographer and you also have friends who are photographers.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:16:43]:

There's a lot of value in having the same skill set and still bringing your difference of style or preference to each other. But I will say I definitely have benefited from having people who are similar to me in some sense, whether it's personality or values or long term goals, but have enough difference that we both feel like we're learning from each other.

Amelia Hruby [00:17:07]:

Yeah, exactly. And I think so often of the book Big Friendship, what has stuck with me the most from that book is the sort of picture they paint of the way that many of us become friends with someone because of how similar we are to them. But the way we stay friends is by embracing our differences and finding ways to talk about them openly and honestly. And I think that maybe perhaps leads us into some of the challenges of working with friends. Because I agree with you, especially when I have my business hat on, I'm like, yes, it's so nice to be friends with people who come from different types of businesses because I can learn how they do something and import that into my business. And it's different and interesting and maybe works sort of out of context in a really cool way. But then I think there are other times when I've had differences with friends that can make it really challenging to work together. So, for instance, when I've tried to work with friends who don't have the same approach to pricing that I do, and we can't come up with a price for something we want to do together, we can't agree on one, and then it kind of falls apart because one of us, we can't land somewhere or even just like really different schedules.

Amelia Hruby [00:18:26]:

There are plenty of people I've wanted to partner with, but it's like they can only do it evenings and weekends and I try to have really hard boundaries around not working during those times. Are there other ways that differences of these sorts have kind of come up in your collaborations or been challenges toward working with friends?

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:18:44]:

Well, since this is Off the Grid, something that I've been thinking about more and more, and as we're recording this, I'm not on Instagram, I think by the time this goes live, I may be on Instagram in some capacity, but even for me, hearing so many people whose value is to get more followers on social media, and even though I'm just now on this six week break, I kind of stopped trying to grow followers on Instagram a long time ago. So I've just been over that for a while. And then when I hear people who are still wanting to do something that's really Instagram focused or Instagram centric, I think of this, of when I launched the book and I was just saying yes to so many things, but I found myself struggling to be like, should I say yes to this Instagram Live? Should I not say yes to this Instagram live? And even having people in my life, whether it's my agents or the marketing people being like, yeah, you should try and do these types of things. And I'm just like, not only is that not a value of mine, but I've also seen there is not an ROI monetarily or on my time investment. So that's a point of contention that I've noticed at times is like, we have different strategic priorities. If your strategic priority is to get more followers on Instagram or more engagement on Instagram, but I'm really focused on getting people on my newsletter, it's going to be hard for us to collaborate because we want to point people to two different places.

Amelia Hruby [00:20:15]:

Yeah, I think that's a really astute point and definitely is also something that comes up for me as someone who's not on Instagram. Sometimes people approach me for collaborations of some kind and want me to do an Instagram thing and I've had to be like, I'm sorry, I just don't Instagram as a verb. I just don't do that. I'm not there. I won't come on your account. I have nowhere to put you on mine. It's not something that I take part in, but I like how you've kind of framed it as like a strategic difference. I think a really important part of a strong partnership or collaboration with a friend is being aligned on your goals, knowing what you both hope to get out of this.

Amelia Hruby [00:20:57]:

And I think some people, when they go into working with friends, they may feel like identifying goals is almost like a little too utilitarian, almost like treating this collaboration, treating this friendship like it only matters what it will get you or something like that. But I don't think we have to think of goals in this way. I think we just have to think of our when we're working with friends, I always want to have a shared intention, and I want to know that we're working toward mutual benefit of some kind. And that could just be our shared intention is to spend more time together and invite other people into that. It could be that our shared intention is to make $100,000 together. I don't know. It could be that our shared intention is to create a season of a podcast for fun or create a season of a podcast to get a Squarespace sponsorship. I just think that it doesn't matter what the shared intention is, but what matters is that you're talking about it and naming it together before you get too far into the process of working together.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:21:59]:

Yeah, and I think that's especially a danger, in general, it's a danger of small business ownership where we can just tend to be like, okay, let's go into this. And then all of a sudden, you're like, did I have a contract for this? Did I not? And actually, Amelia is very good at this. Amelia always will have a contract. But especially so with friends, I think the tendency can be, oh, we don't need that because we just trust each other. And that's actually where I think you need it more. It's making me think of marriage and prenups and all of that and how people talk about how it's not romantic to have that. And I'm not trying to delve into that conversation necessarily, but I do think it's really important to have that clarity on what you want and what you want together and what success looks like. I think of when we co-founded Lifestyle Business League and I still have this in my office.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:22:53]:

We had, like, five or six kind of feelings that we wanted to embody because Lifestyle Business League is a side business for both of us. And we were like, we want to do this, but if we want to do it, it has to feel like spacious. It has to feel easy. There has to be flexibility because we both have other things going on. And I find myself looking at that and being like, oh, we are living into that, or we've had conversations, even not necessarily serious conversations, but like, ooh, we did that thing, and that actually felt overwhelming or that felt restrictive, so we're not going to do that again because this is how we said we wanted to feel. And so we have that guidepost to come back to.

Amelia Hruby [00:23:32]:

Yeah. And I think that we return and recenter there, and we also gently hold each other accountable to that. Because I can think of more than one occasion where I've pitched an idea to you for the Lifestyle Business League, and you've very nicely been like, Amelia, that sounds great, but you've told me recently that you're really overbooked and stressed. And are you sure that you'd like to add three more calls to your calendar this month? Because the Lifestyle Business League doesn't need that. And I'm always like, oh, yeah, you're right. I think that the shared definition of success is both what you're working towards and what you're returning to at all times in a partnership or collaboration and I think it's good for all partnerships or collaborations to have that. But I agree, like when you're working with friends we think we can skip this part but it might actually be more important to help avoid miscommunications or hurt feelings in the future.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:24:35]:

Yeah, and that's another thing that I will build on is what you were saying of miscommunication and it's so funny because we're both in long term partnerships and I like to joke that we're business married too. Communication is so important. My husband and I, we were long distance for like five or six years and the gift that that gave us was being able to communicate because when you are just like texting and on the phone doing the silent treatment just does not work in the same way that it might work in person. So we had to learn how to communicate really effectively and I feel like the danger sometimes is when you get so used to being in friendship with someone, depending on what that friendship is, and because you and I are just both pretty direct communicators, that's not a problem for us. But if you haven't developed that skill set and then you move into a collaborative partnership where you actually do need to be direct, you can't be passive aggressive, that can draw up issues too. So communication is key. Again, general life skill, but especially important here.

Amelia Hruby [00:25:47]:

Yeah, well, I mean I could think of lots of instances where if your friendship pattern is that when you rub each other the wrong way you just take space and you don't talk for a few days or a few weeks and that's always worked for you. That may not work for you when you have a deadline all of a sudden, because you've decided to do your first project together, your first collaboration, or other people are paying you for your time. And so you can't just step away from the other person for two or three weeks and you have to actually find a new way of being together. And so I think I agree with you, communication is incredibly important and the communication patterns you may have built with a friend consciously or unconsciously just may not work once you add this layer of working together to the equation. Especially when there's money involved because people are one way about life and a whole nother way about money. Even your best friends when money comes into the equation they can just act in ways you would never imagine.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:26:46]:

Absolutely and I feel like as the person who tends to dip my toes more into the startup space, you hear this so much with co-founders where they're co founding something, and then it's all well and good while they're bootstrapping and then they're looking for investors. And then all of a sudden they got to figure out who's the CEO and who's the CTO or the COO or who gets 49% and who gets 51%, like, all of these different things. And God forbid they didn't do that work. And then all of a sudden they're having to be like, how do we split this thing up? We didn't talk about it. I was just watching this documentary on HQ Trivia, and it includes a lot of the founder issues that they had. It's unfortunately really common, but a lot of the issues are avoidable. So that's the good news.

Amelia Hruby [00:27:37]:

Yes, they're avoidable by communicating about them in advance and signing contracts, which sounds so, like, clinical when I say it that way, but I think that we're just going to keep circling back there. To me, what's nice about a contract is it is a very clear communication tool. It's so direct, and it can feel aggressive to people because it's so direct. Like, if you're not accustomed to direct communication, contracts can feel incredibly overwhelming. And when I say contract, I don't mean you necessarily need a very intensely long legal document. A contract could be a straightforward statement of work and expectations for each other that you both sign. It doesn't even like, something that you're agreeing to that you can point to in the future and be like, hey, remember when we agreed that you would write all the emails and then you didn't write any emails? And I think that another thing about contracts that can be helpful is, like, deciding in advance what happens if someone doesn't live up to the expectation. How do we plan for the worst case scenario or a less than ideal scenario together? And this is something we came up against in the Lifestyle Business League, and I'm wondering if I can invite you to kind of share with folks what we were doing and how we handled it.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:29:00]:

Yeah. So basically, my accountant, he's a great guy. He thinks in ways that I don't often think, and he's helping us do our taxes for the Lifestyle Business League. So he asks for the documentations, and then he asks some really valid questions like, what do you do if you get bought out? Or what happened? I forget exactly what he said. And I was like, well, we did have some financial things, but I guess we didn't answer these questions. And so we decided to do it in person at our retreat. And it was hard. We had to think through all of these different scenarios of what happens if one of us dies, what happens if one of us wants to leave the Lifestyle Business League? How do we sell it to the other person? And really sitting in these worst case scenarios. And you and I are able to have some pretty big dreams and vision, and it stretched me in a not a fun way to have to use that ability to vision to envision the worst possible scenario.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:30:03]:

But I have to say, it felt really good. And I felt like it grew our relationship to talk through those things together and to keep being reminded that at the end of the day, we have each other's best interests. Even as we were thinking, like, what if I screwed Amelia over? We still were thinking, how could this be the most supportive experience possible if one of us screwed the other person over? And it just reminded me how much love and trust and respect I have for you and in us doing this too, planning exactly what would happen in these worst case scenarios, then that's figured out. And then I'm able to just live in the present, in the right here and right now, and not have to have any question marks because we figured it out. And now I get to be your friend and your business partner, be business married to you, and not have to have those questions.

Amelia Hruby [00:30:59]:

Yeah, exactly. I think that it was a very challenging conversation or just time to have to imagine each other treating each other really horribly. That was not fun, not something I enjoyed. But what we were also able to do was kind of step into those spaces together and say, even in this moment, how can we be as generous as possible with each other? So one of the things we had to talk about was like, what if one of our individual businesses goes bankrupt? And that was a hard conversation. I don't ever want to imagine that for myself or for you. But because our businesses co-own the Lifestyle Business League, we had to talk about it. As you said, what if one of us dies? Does our partner inherit part of the Lifestyle Business League? No. We decided, like, that's a decision we had to make. We had to talk about it.

Amelia Hruby [00:31:56]:

And we also had to talk about the buyout process, which is really challenging and confusing. And we spent a lot of time talking about, like, okay, what do we feel like we are owed for having built this together if one of us needs to step away? And then also, how can we kind of write out a buyout process that won't bankrupt the other person to try to buy out the one of us? Right? So we really had to think through so many logistics. But I appreciated that we were able to even in imagining these really challenging spaces where horrible things have happened to us or we're doing horrible things to each other, we were able to center in those same values that we started the company with. And we can do that because we did it before we got to that place. Because the moment when someone's treating you like shit is not the moment when you're like, I can be my most zen and generous self about it, right? Like, the moment that your business co-founder is like, I'm leaving and taking all the money is not the moment when you're going to have your most generous idea of buying them out. So it's not going to happen.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:33:00]:

And I love that you brought that piece up because the doing it ahead of time, let's say that that went terribly and we couldn't decide on a buyout process or what to do if one of us died, then we know that at the beginning and we can be like, okay, maybe we don't need to be partnered together, actually. And I'd much rather have that happen a few months into something or before something gets off the ground, rather than when there's so much momentum and then we're having to walk away. It's so nice to have that moment of like, okay, if we can't get through this conversation, maybe this needs to stop. And I will add this context. Amelia and I, we have a legal business entity together. We're not saying that you need to be talking about what's going to happen if someone dies in every single situation or all of those different things, but I would say that there are probably questions that you need to ask that are probably more forward than you would naturally ask if you're anything like me.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:34:03]:

And I remember the first time I collaborated with someone was on a retreat that she was kind of like the lead host for, and I was coming in as a co-facilitator underneath her. And we talked about our working styles. We talked before we got into conflict about how we know we approach conflict, how we react and respond to conflict. We talked about how we wanted to grow, what we wanted to get out of this experience. And again, because we had done that and it wasn't a particularly long call, but we did that at the beginning of the process, and then we could say, Taylor, I know you want to practice leading something like this, so why don't you take this segment so that you can build that skill? Or I don't remember us having any major conflict, but if something came up, I could go back and say, oh, that's how she told me she responds to conflict. She hasn't verbalized it yet, but maybe something's a little off. Maybe I need to make sure in our next planning meeting we hold some space to air any grievances. So again, having that document, whether it's a legal document, whether it's a “how we work together document” at the beginning, is just going to either help you end the partnership that needs to be ended and wasn't going to go anywhere good, or sets you up for a successful, flourishing partnership.

Amelia Hruby [00:35:20]:

Yeah, I love that example so much. And I agree with you. As we shared at the beginning, we did so many things together, many of which involved money before we ever started a business together. Taking that step of filing that paperwork legally entwines our businesses and so I would say that to me, is at the far end of your friendship working together journey. We started by just like being two people working in the context of a same separate organization, and then we moved into offering these small workshops together and we moved into getting paid to partner by another company together. And there are ways that we grew into this that I think are like an integral part of working together. You know, you shared your story about the retreat.

Amelia Hruby [00:36:11]:

I can also reflect on collaborating with grace on the Living Systems course that we've talked about on the show, and I've had her on multiple times to talk about and some of the decisions we made. You really talked about the sort of like psychological, emotional partnership pieces. And grace and I are making a lot of decisions on the operational side, like which business are the customers paying for this course? How are we splitting all of the revenue? Who is paying out who for that and how is that going to work? There's also all this operational pieces and then it's like, well, my business needs to 1099 you and so we have to like, you're going to be a contractor of my business through this course. And that was a whole operational side of things that we chose. And I think that that requires a lot of trust to have those conversations as well. And often when people think about doing something together, they're like, oh, well, we'll just do everything 50/50. But in the world of receiving other people's money on the Internet, that's not quite as easy as it sounds like. People have to actually delegate and take the lead on different things. You're going to encounter that when you start to set it up and it's good to just have all of that conversation.

[music fades in]

Amelia Hruby [00:37:19]:

Hi, Off the Grid listeners. Amelia here, interrupting this amazing conversation with Taylor to tell you a little bit more about the Lifestyle Business League. The Lifestyle Business League is a support network for small business owners, artists and creatives who want to center their work around multidimensional profitability values, aligned autonomy, growing intentionally, and leaving an interdependent legacy. It's about creating a business that feels good and is supported by other business owners who get it. I can't tell you how many online business communities I've joined only to find them full of MLMers or Tech Bros. Taylor and I created the Lifestyle Business League as a space where you could bring yourself and your business to get the fluff free support that you're craving. We host one event per month where you can get to know other business owners who are running companies at similar stages and sizes as you.

Amelia Hruby [00:38:26]:

And we have an online community where you can pop in to ask questions, offer support, and sometimes just share that one annoying thing that you need to tell somebody that nobody in your real life will get. That's what we're here for. If you'd like to make some new biz friends and feel more supported in your business in this season and year ahead, I truly hope that you'll join us. You can find more by heading to the link in the show notes or going to lifestylebusinessleague.com. Now let's get back to the episode.

[music fades out]

Amelia Hruby [00:38:53]:

So, as two people with a lot of capricorn placements in our chart, let's just make this even more practical for the listeners. So if you're tuned into this episode because you want to know how to work with your friends, let's just talk about how do we start working with our friends and then maybe what do you need to think about and where can you expect it or how can it grow over time? So Taylor, if you are thinking about how to work with your friends, where do you start?

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:39:29]:

Yeah, so this sounds really simplistic, but make sure that the person that you're asking is your friend. I know this sounds so basic and silly, but I have found this in myself, and I think that social media exacerbates this, where maybe you're, like, you exchange hearts on each other's stories. And so you feel like that means that you're friends or you've seen someone from afar grow their business and there's that parasocial relationship with them. But it might feel kind of left field if all of a sudden you're like, hey, can we do this workshop together? Hey, can we do this other thing together? So really ask yourself, like, have I had multiple conversations with this person? Have I engaged with them in contexts that aren't just them posting in a public forum? If the answers to that are yes, then you can reach out to them and I would say start super small. When I think of the people who I am biz friends with, it's either because I was in some type of program with them, I've been in various entrepreneurial programs and so that's how we got to know each other, or we both used to be members of The Wing. That's a whole other story for another day.

Amelia Hruby [00:40:50]:

That's true.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:40:51]:

I met them through networking groups like The Wing or other places, or it could be an introduction through someone else and we started having coffee chats, either in person or virtual. But I actually think the first step for working with your friends is really making sure that you have a solid friendship foundation first. And maybe before you do something, you just invest a few months in building that relationship. And I want to be clear that this isn't like investing in that relationship so that they'll want to do that workshop with me. If that's how you're thinking about things, then again, are you really friends with that person or do you just want something from them? I'll let you answer that yourself, but that's where my mind goes, is like, making sure it's a solid friendship first.

Amelia Hruby [00:41:40]:

Yeah, I think that that's a really good point. Part of what I'm feeling in you giving that answer is the shared experience both of us have had of people pitching us these really involved collaborations like we are best friends and already committed to doing something together and then us having to walk it back and be like, hi, it's so nice to meet you. Could you tell me more about who you are and what you do before I commit to hosting a three week long retreat with you and also paying to attend it, question mark?

Amelia Hruby [00:42:19]:

That's what we don't want to do. We don't want to presume that we know people really well when we, again have just traded hearts on Instagram posts or listened to their podcast a lot. But I also want to make space for business collaborations that are more practical and a sort of like, even more transactional. I've had plenty of people pitch me collaborations and they just didn't come and I didn't know them very well, but it turned out to be a great fit. But that's because they didn't come to me like I was already their best friend. They were very straightforward, like they'd come and say or they'd land in my inbox and say, Amelia, I love your work. I've listened to this, I listened to this. Here's who I am, here's what I do.

Amelia Hruby [00:43:01]:

Here is something specific I think we might be able to do together. Here is what I can pay you if it's that kind of opportunity. And would you be open to having a conversation about this. That is pitching a partnership or collaboration, which is a very different thing than working with your friends. And so if your goal is to build a community of other friends in business, then you have to start by being friends. I agree. But that doesn't mean you can't pitch partnerships and collaborations outside of people you're already friends with.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:43:34]:

Agreed. And I think we both can think of examples of the former and the latter of working with our friends. Obviously exhibit A, us being on this call, but also collaborating with other people and people rewind listen to that. Take notes on what Amelia said in terms of a great pitch email for working with someone that you don't have as deep of a relationship with. I would also say I feel like I can be the hype woman for this, but podcasts are so great for building relationships with people that you'd like to be in closer relationship with. It's like, okay, I've got this thing we're going to record, we're going to talk for 15 minutes to an hour, depending on how long your podcast is. And then we actually have a touch point and it's a very clear ask. I'm asking for this amount of your time.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:44:24]:

So I would say that in terms of starting to work with your friends, a really simple thing could just be like, hey, do you want to be on my podcast? Or, hey, can I interview you for my blog? Try and make it a lower lift to start, and then you can grow from there. What do you think, Amelia? That just came to mind for me.

Amelia Hruby [00:44:47]:

Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, if you want to work with your friends, start a podcast. Come to Softer Sounds. We'll do it with you. That said, I don't think everyone needs to start a podcast to work with their friends. But I agree with you, Taylor, that podcasts are such a fantastic networking and community building tool because they give you a reason to reach out to people, and not only to reach out to them, but also to have a really intentional conversation with them. Because sometimes people will kind of just write to me about wanting to have a coffee chat. And even if they're really interesting and I say yes once we get on that call, I'm like, what do we talk about? But if they invite me on their podcast and they've pitched me to come on to talk about a specific thing, or I've pitched them to come on and talk about a specific thing, it's like our relationship immediately drops in to that place, and we're not doing the sort of awkward small talk of a coffee chat.

Amelia Hruby [00:45:40]:

So sometimes I think I agree with you that having a podcast can just be a really nice way to develop a relatively quick intimacy with someone if you are on the same frequency. And if you're not, it'll tell you pretty quickly that this is not going to go farther than this one recording that you're doing. And so I love that as a sort of starting place of making sure that you're friends with this person and beginning with a sort of specific, intentional, lightweight ask for your first way that you work together.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:46:16]:

Yeah, and I feel like interviews are so good for that. Whether it's podcast, whether it's blog, whether it's in some other format. I've seen people have someone do a little guest thing in their newsletter. Those are great ways both to meet potential biz friends and to your point, to start to build a rapport, a sense of ease with someone else, and then you grow from like, as you've heard, I hope you've gotten this out of our relationship thus far is that Amelia and I are, like, years into this friendship. It didn't just start with us founding a business together. So these little opportunities are seeds that can grow.

Amelia Hruby [00:46:57]:

They really are. And I also think it can be helpful to start with a seed, like an interview, before you move to something that is a paid collaboration of any form. I think, again, I've already said this, but to say it again, once we bring money into the conversation, it can just change the conversation. And so starting with something that is a collaboration with no monetary transaction involved is great. I also think maybe even a step before where you said we begin, Taylor, for me, it's also like I think it begins with some clarity for yourself around what you're like. I think we need to step back and even get clear about what you want from reaching out to people, from working with your friends.

Amelia Hruby [00:47:47]:

This goes back to what you said earlier, Taylor, around are we strategically aligned? Do we want the same things out of working together? Well, the only way to know that is if you know what you want. And I find that a lot of people will approach me about doing something together. And I read their whole email and I'm like, I do not know what you want from me or us or in this email. And I think that there's just a space of I'm not saying you need to know that you want something super specific, but are you reaching out because you desire connection? Are you reaching out because you desire a specific type of collaboration if you don't know yourself? It can be really hard to build these friendships where you are working together toward a shared goal if you're not clear on what it is that you're desiring.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:48:35]:

I'm immediately thinking of an email that's in my inbox right now that I have to respond to. Someone pitched me and I was like, okay, can you tell me more about what you're hoping, this partnership, because they said hopefully we could partner/collaborate on this thing. And I was like, great, so what were you thinking in terms of that partnership or collaboration? And then they just came back and they were like, oh, well, I'm really open, but maybe like these one or two things, I still have no idea if this thing is virtual or in person. There are so many questions that I have, and I think because of their lack of clarity, it's making it really hard for me. This is something that theoretically I would say yes to, but I feel like I'm doing a lot of labor right now, and you don't want to build or deepen a relationship from a place where it feels laborious. So how can you make it easier for everyone involved? You make it easier for yourself by getting clear and then you make it easier for other people by creating that clear ask and carrying that clarity throughout every aspect of the collaboration.

Amelia Hruby [00:49:37]:

Yeah, I love that carrying that clarity. Some of it is also who you reach out to, and I think it does in many instances come from social media where we're really trained to compare ourselves to other people based on follower count. And we're also conditioned to always be kind of striving toward people who have more followers than us and pitching them collaborations from this very transactional idea of, well, if I work with someone who has more followers than me, then I'll get some of their followers and then I will be more in their league. And I want to collaborate with people who are in my league. But to me, that has absolutely nothing to do with how many followers you have. It has to do with how clear you are about your clarity of purpose, the intention that you're setting, and us working together, the goals that you desire out of it. That's what puts us in the same league, not how many followers you have or even your audience reach. That's not that important to me when I'm trying to determine if we can actually become collaborators and friends.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:50:40]:

Yeah, so Luvvie Ajayi. She's like a multiple New York Times bestseller based out of Chicago. And she talks about she has this I think they call it like their African voltron or something. It's this group of friends that they made back in the day when their careers were all pretty early and they've grown up together. And like I said, she's like multiple time New York Times bestseller. There's like super successful business owners. I think Yvonne Orji, who is in Insecure, is like one of the friends in that group. And Luvvie has talked about how she can see people wanting to get in that group and collaborate with them when really they started collaborating before they had the followers or the accolades.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:51:30]:

And Issa Rae talks about something similar. She talks about collaborating across rather than trying to strive up all of the time. And I think it's really unfortunate because a lot of people there is like this trauma of maybe you tried to collaborate with a friend once and it didn't work out. But I think a lot of people skip over working with their friends because and I don't think people would say it this way, but if you were being honest with yourself, you don't want to work with your friend because you don't think that your friend has enough followers or enough cachet or whatever, so you want to skip over them in favor of someone that you have, if any relationship, it's a very tenuous, parasocial relationship, too. And there's just so much more richness and benefit from collaborating with your friends. Again, not to say never try and strive and talk to people upwards, but if you want that depth, work with your friends.

Amelia Hruby [00:52:32]:

So well said. Okay, so I feel like we said we were going to get really practical and give people a roadmap, and then we got like one step down the roadmap, but I'm going to reconstruct it in reverse. So I feel like what we're saying is, if you want to work with your friends, start with clarity for yourself around what you're hoping to do with other people and what you might gain from new working friendships. And then I think there's a degree of clarity in your desires, clarity in your asks, making sure people are really your friend if you're going to approach them that way, as well as looking to your peers and the people who are already in your networks and spaces and who you see as potential colleagues, quote unquote, in the same league as you. And that's where you begin for working with your friends. So once you have perhaps identified a few people that you might want to work with, we've already talked a lot about ways to reach out to them and not to reach out to them and, Taylor, so what do you think for you, once you've gotten the outreach and you're like, yes, this is a yes from me. Where do you go next for working with your friends?

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:53:50]:

Yeah, I think it goes back to clarifying what we want, something that we talked about in the beginning. So getting clear, how are we going to work on this? What does success look like? How do we want to feel as we're doing? This is something that I think is really important because you can be maybe hitting the numbers or the metrics, but being miserable. And so you need something outside of that hard data to tap back into to say, oh, wait, we're hitting that number, but you and I are both not enjoying this at all. And then I think you need to from a logistical, tactical standpoint, you just got to figure out we talked about personality and other preferences, but having touch points, like, how often are we going to meet? What are we going to do in these meetings? What are the deadlines for things? If I'm supposed to send an email and you're supposed to send an email, when are these emails supposed to be going out? You can get into some of the nuts and bolts, and you also want to think about how you can do the nuts and bolts in a way that lives into those feelings you want to cultivate. I think you and I do a great job of, like, I think of our retreat. We did so much during our retreat.

Amelia Hruby [00:54:59]:

Yeah, an embarrassing amount of work to me.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:55:01]:

But we had so much fun.

Amelia Hruby [00:55:04]:

It was so fun.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:55:05]:

Blasted music, we ate good food. I remember dancing in the kitchen at some point. We were able to infuse those feelings, while also we have this roadmap of what do we actually want to get done during this time. And I feel like I've kind of touched on this a couple of times during the conversation, but in having that structure, in that framework, it's kind of like boundaries on a playground. So once you've set that, then you just get to play and have fun together. But if you haven't set that, you're more likely to enter into potentially dangerous, for your relationship, situations.

Amelia Hruby [00:55:41]:

I think another piece of it, as you're working together, is figuring out what you'll delegate to each other and what you'll do together. And I think that I say the delegation part first because I found that in some collaborations, if we're doing everything together, the whole step of the way, it's actually just double the work. And while that can be okay sometimes, on the whole, I think part of the purpose of a partnership is to share the effort and to distribute it between the two of you, not just load twice as much on your backs so that you're carrying the exact same amount. Because then I think, especially if you're doing something paid, you can get in this hard situation, you're like, I still did the same amount of work and I made half the money. And that really breeds resentment. And so I think as you are choosing how you want to feel in doing the work, setting the boundaries so you can play together, also making decisions about what you'll delegate to each other, so that it does feel like, more of a shared workspace and workload than simply like you're both just doing all the things and making half the money, if you're making any money.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:56:53]:

Yeah. And I think that's something that you and I have both expressed where we're like, oh, we both have at different times said that we feel like we're not doing enough. And it's just because we're used to being in situations where we're probably doing more than our fair share. So it's like, oh, this is what it's like to be truly supported in a collaboration. Who'd have thought?

Amelia Hruby [00:57:12]:

Yes, working with your friends should not be like you're the only person in the school group that's doing the work. That should not be how it feels. And you also shouldn't both try to be that person in your collaboration. When we step into working with friends, we can learn what it feels like to be really supported in our work. And that to me, is one of the biggest joys of it. And learning, I think, for both of us, it's also been a journey of learning to receive support and actually let go, of needing to do the thing ourselves. Because I fully trust you and that you will do it well, and that you will do it in alignment with our values, whether it is write a post in the Lifestyle Business League community, or send an email or talk to a partner or whatever it may be, that trust is there. And so I'm not carrying those things, I'm really passing them to you and then receiving your support. And I try to offer you the same.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:58:19]:

I agree. And at the beginning, when we were talking about what's great about working with your friends, I think any relationship, collaboration, partnership has an opportunity to be a portal for growth. And I feel like that's even more so when you're able to do it with someone where you can express, this feels uncomfortable for me to let this go and your friend can be like, I totally hear you, and I'm proud of you for letting this go and stepping back. And so there's this other level of not just growing, but being able to be seen and celebrated in your growth.

Amelia Hruby [00:58:56]:

I love that so much. I mean, I am a better business owner because of our friendship and partnership, for sure, in so many ways and in the way that you just spoke to because of how I've learned to be supported in our business partnership, I've allowed other people in my solo business to support me in ways that I really struggled to release control before. But I found that our shared business and friendship has just taught me so much, and I've received so much, and I'm getting all gushy. I'm just so grateful. I just feel so grateful for not just everything we have together, but also the personal growth that I've been able to go through through having all this together.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [00:59:48]:

Not you making me tear up, but honestly, you're getting insight into our voice note, but normally it's me. Normally it's me randomly saying something and be like, Amelia, I also hope you know how much I love you and how grateful. I know. So it was Amelia's turn to do it.

Amelia Hruby [01:00:05]:

It's true. You're the gushier voice noter than I am.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [01:00:11]:

I definitely am. Words of Affirmation love to give and receive.

Amelia Hruby [01:00:14]:

I appreciate them. So for folks tuned in who are like, Yay. Now I know how to work with my friends. Amelia and Taylor, where can I find some friends who have businesses? I mean, y'all know that we have an answer for you, which is that you can come to the Lifestyle Business League to meet people that, as I like to say, you can grow with and go with people that you're doing the work alongside them, and you get to grow together in the process.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [01:00:44]:

Yeah, the Lifestyle Business League really came out of something that we were craving more of. We have this rich relationship and we wanted to be in relationship with more people who understood the problems that we experience and can go to get questions answered. And it's just been so cool to see the way the community has really come together and become something bigger than anything you and I and I'm not even talking about bigger in terms of numbers. I'm talking about bigger in terms of it really is non hierarchical. We are the stewards of the space, but there are things happening in the community where people are like, oh, we wanted this to happen, so here we made this happen, and it's so beautiful to see that. And then also, I know Amelia and I, we both get excited when we see people in the league collaborating together and doing things, not because we force them to, but just because they're building these deeper relationships with each other.

Amelia Hruby [01:01:41]:

Yeah. I feel like so many friendships have started through the League that I've kind of gotten to witness, and friendships of the really specific flavor that Taylor and I have been talking about, like friendships forged through collaboration in the context of each other's businesses. And that's a really specific type of friendship. And if you're looking for those, I think communities like the League are some of the few places you can really go to for that. Otherwise, we're just kind of hoping we encounter the right people along our own business journey, which can happen too.

Taylor Elyse Morrison [01:02:18]:

It can happen too. But we've also been really intentional of making the community this place where it's like there's one event a month. The events are designed for you to learn and to connect and to grow together. And it's just like we've used this word intention so many times, and I just know that we have held such a strong intention for what the League is and the role that we want it to play in members' lives.

Amelia Hruby [01:02:44]:

Yeah. So if you're interested in joining, you can head to lifestylebusinessleague.com to learn more about who we are, what we're up to, and how you can apply. I will give you a heads up that we've got lots of fun stuff planned for Q Four 2023. So if you're listening, when this comes out, we have some exciting events coming up. In October, we will have a salon, which is a community conversation about self leadership and leadership in our businesses. In November, we are going to have a workshop on in-case of emergency planning and how to build some plans into our businesses for what happens if we can't work all of the time or if there is a natural disaster in our area and we need to shut our business down. Honestly, exactly some of these conversations Taylor and I were talking about in the context of being co-founders today, so we'll have space in the community to open those up gently together, and then we're going to end the year with an end of year party to celebrate what we've all done.

Amelia Hruby [01:03:48]:

I was telling Taylor that the only thing I'm ever jealous of from my friends who have traditional jobs is that they get to have these holiday parties with fun and music and swag and all these snacks, and I want that for myself. So we're going to host one in the League. So come join us in Q Four 2023 or the future. If you're listening from then we would love to get to know you. And hey, we may become biz friends. Maybe you are our next collaborator. How cool would that be? Okay. Thank you so much, Taylor, for being here.

Amelia Hruby [01:04:23]:

[music fades in]

Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Find links and resources in the show notes and don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig. That's softersounds dot studio slash b-y-e-i-g.

This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Melissa Kaitlin Carter of Making Audio Magic and our logo is by n'atelier Studio.

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