🌈 Finding Creative Freedom & Success Beyond Social Media — with Kristen Drozdowski of Worthwhile Paper

Amelia Hruby [00:00:00]:

Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients.

Amelia Hruby [00:00:25]:

Hello, and welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast about running a thriving creative business with no or minimal social media presence. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby. I am the founder of Softer Sounds Podcast Studio, the cofounder of the Lifestyle Business League. And here on this show, I am your fellow journeyer and guide on our path of doing business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty. Before we dive into today's episode, I wanna remind you that this show is paired with an amazing free resource. It's called the Leaving Social Media Toolkit, and that toolkit includes three things, a five step plan for leaving any social platform, my list of 100 ways to share your work off social media, and a creative marketing ideas database. Those tools pair with the first few episodes of the show and you can get all of that for free at offthegrid.fun/toolkit.

Amelia Hruby [00:01:22]:

Okay. Now that you've got the goods, I want to introduce you to today's guest. Kristen Drozdowski is a visual artist and the founder of Worthwhile Paper, which is a paper goods design and print studio based in Ypsilanti, Michigan. She also writes a newsletter called Field of Visions, sharing inspiring lessons from creative practice, which is one of my favorite things that lands in my inbox, and I'm super excited to have her here today to share more about her 10 years as a creative business owner, an artist, a writer, and so much more. So welcome, Kristen. Thanks for being on the show today.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:02:01]:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I love this podcast. It has helped me a lot and, yeah, I'm really excited to chat with you.

Amelia Hruby [00:02:12]:

So I wanna dive into this, the kind of celebration of your business. So you just shared in your newsletter that you've been in business for 10 years, which is a huge accomplishment. And I'm wondering, like, if we could kick off by you taking us back to 2014 when you started your creative business, what was your life like then? What were you creating and selling them. Like, can you kinda paint us the picture of that moment when you first started out?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:02:38]:

Sure. So Worthwhile started in a pretty organic, personal and in-person way. I went to school for graphic design. And after I graduated, I was dabbling in a lot of different types of art and design related work. And my favorite medium was screen printing. I just loved the tactile nature of it. I loved how it was analog and it was really simple and it really matched my style. And so I naturally started making my own prints. And one of the things I really liked at the time and always is encouragement.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:03:14]:

So one of my first things that I made and like the first kind of group things that I made were just cards with encouraging phrases on them. And I guess I wanna, like, back up one second to just say that I was also pregnant at the time and I so I started my business at the same time that I was pregnant. I had just quit a job right before I discovered I was pregnant. And so I like to think of my business as kind of this use for my nesting energy. So it was kind of like, "Okay, I'm shifting in my life." And I kind of started honing into what I wanted to do most. When I started making my own prints and cards, I started taking them to local artist markets. And that turned into, well, I just love the personal connection of being at the markets and hearing from people, who they're gonna give this to or why they like it.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:04:03]:

And connecting with people in person was really such a foundational part of the beginning of my business. And so, of course, I started an online business too. So it started as a Etsy shop. And somewhere along, it snowballed, and it got to the point where I could do this full time. So, you know, since starting an Etsy shop, I've had I've start I have my own website and, you know, just kind of grew my business from there, but that is what the beginning looked like.

Amelia Hruby [00:04:31]:

Oh, I love this. I feel like So many artists can relate to this story of just sort of being in school, learning what you enjoy, wanting to create in your own way. I love that it dovetails with your journey of becoming a parent, the way that, like, all of this sort of ushered you through this huge threshold and everything changed on the other side. I I love business stories and life stories in that way. Obviously, a lot has happened from those early beginnings 10 years ago to now. And so I wanted to take some time just to ask you, like, how the business has changed and evolved knowing that we're not gonna get every single beat of that story, of course, but could you share some of the the high level shifts or the big events that have occurred for you and Worthwhile over that time?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:05:18]:

Yeah. I think the biggest high level shift was our shift into wholesale. So buyers who own lots of different kinds of shops placing orders for larger amounts of product. Because with wholesale, you're selling larger amounts, but at a wholesale price so that they can resell them in their stores. And so we have lots of relationships with shops now. But that led to a really big shift in my business because at first, it was me in my home studio with small amounts of items that I'm selling on Etsy and on my website too, a lot of growth in my product line and increased production, eventually hiring employees and getting a space because it requires a lot more than just me to have all of those relationships and manage that much product. And with the amount that wholesale buyers would like a lot to choose from, so having a larger product line becomes important at that point. And, you know, we're screen printing everything ourselves.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:06:19]:

My husband does all of the screen printing and my team and I now do risograph printing for some of our products. And so larger amount of products like that was a big shift. And I also started working with sales reps and this is also an in person component that, you know, it has been around for a long time in the stationery and gift industry where, you have a sales rep who actually makes in person appointments with stores and then they send you orders and you fulfill those orders. And so honestly, like I'm reflecting a lot now on how much that shifted not only the production and business aspects, but my personal creativity and how I approached my process because I keep thinking and reflecting now that I kind of got sucked into a vortex of a corporate release schedule. A lot of my process went towards creating designs at the right time that buyers expect. And so it's not all bad. I wanna be able to provide my customers with things that they expect at times that they expect it. However, I'm finding myself now in a completely different type of shift where I'm rediscovering creative freedom after being somewhat enmeshed in this corporate kind of gift stationery schedule.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:07:47]:

And so I'm kind of left with how can I meet the needs of my customers while also prioritizing authenticity? And I think that shift is happening because I stopped working with the sales reps for a few reasons. They were really great, but the group that I was working with sort of dissolved and came back together. And throughout that process, I realized, that just wasn't really right for us at the time anymore to work with reps. So I've been sort of mentally detoxing for the last year of being in that flow and kinda coming back to what my own flow is, those are my biggest shifts and they're both related.

Amelia Hruby [00:08:26]:

Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. So I'm really tracking the journey you're describing from being primarily an artist who is screen printing and selling at markets, and you have this direct relationship with your customer. And you're creating, maybe not in real time, but not, you know, with, like, a 12 or 18 month lead time or something. Like, markets, you could make it put it together the night before and have it out there for sale the next day. Maybe not sustainably, but you could do it. So from that to working with sales reps to being on a more corporate schedule. And I am curious, like, can you tell a little bit more about what that schedule's like? How far in advance were you having to have things designed, how much of a lead time did you have to create things? And can you also give us a sense of, like, what was the scale of that shift in terms of, like, how much product you had when you were just yourself selling at markets versus, like, are we talking, like, 10x the product, a 100x? I have no idea.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:09:22]:

Probably, like, 800x the amount of cards.

Amelia Hruby [00:10:13]:

Yeah. That's a lot.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:09:27]:

We went from printing maybe a 100 to 150 at a time to, like, 800 at a time. And scale wise going from, I don't know, the 10 by 10 room that I'm sitting in right now as that used to be my home studio to about a 2,000 square foot building that houses all of our inventory. So, you know, it's not as big as really, like, corporate level stuff, but it's it was significant enough to need a bigger space to pay rent on a space. And to answer your your other questions, you almost have to start designing things a year in advance. And the reps were asking and, you know, the classic kind of schedule was maybe 6 months in advance.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:10:13]:

Like people would start ordering for holiday. They wanted me to have my holiday stuff available in May, which I personally think is not close enough, but some people will order then. But I find a lot of my customers will order in August for holiday, and so not feeling like I had to be so far in advance, kind of brought me closer to being able to be in the zone with what was actually imminent in the future because if I was gonna design for a holiday right now in February, I just I'm not feeling like that right now. The holidays are over now and I'm thinking about summer and spring. So that's the schedule and the and the scale that I was operating and kind of am operating in.

Amelia Hruby [00:10:57]:

I think that that's something that often we don't think about as business owners when we choose like or think about the type of business is that sort of living in the future and living in the present and how we want to coexist in those ways or collapse those timelines. And if I understand correctly, it's not like you didn't have your own clients throughout this period. So you're having to like live in the future for these wholesale clients and then you're having to be super present with your direct customers and that's a lot to hold and you're having to like be a creative artist who is responsible for most if not all of the design in your company. So how did that feel like in your body and in your creative practice?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:11:41]:

It was difficult because I would release my wholesale designs a lot sooner than it would even be relevant to show to my direct customers. And so it almost felt like an afterthought to share it with my direct customers instead of something that I'm really present with. So it can be hard at times, yeah.

Amelia Hruby [00:12:02]:

And then from there, you are saying like your relationship with the reps has shifted, their sort of structure has shifted and now you've moved back to primarily selling through your own shop, and it sounds like less of a focus on wholesale. Is that correct?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:12:18]:

Well, I'm still focusing a lot on wholesale. It's just that there's not a middle person anymore, really. I have more direct relationships with my wholesale customers now, and it's mostly through an online marketplace called Fair Wholesale. And, what I like about that is even though there is, like, a middle a web site, you know, a company that you're going through to help you market, I still have direct contact with my buyers. So I can still send them nice messages or I can still follow-up with them. Or if there's a problem with their order, it becomes a direct communication. And I I personally enjoy that a lot better than having a middle person where there were sometimes I just didn't even have the contact info for the shop that was ordering from us. And that starts to feel just a little bit not my style. Wholesale is still really our main source of work, But it's just in a different way now.

Amelia Hruby [00:13:15]:

Yeah. I have definitely heard of Fair and it does seem like it's been a huge game changer in retail as an industry, the move from sales rep managed relationships to the sort of platform mediated relationships on Fair where you do get to have those connections. I'm curious about your thoughts on this, but my kind of perspective on a product based business is that there are some different paths and what I admire about your work is you've taken multiple of them. So as sort of like, I am a visual artist and I make fine art and I sell fine art and I work with galleries and my life revolves around my art practice and I hope that I sell enough through these lanes to make money, and then there's sort of like a product based practice. It's like, I create products, I sell at markets, I, for some people, like try to make that direct those direct relationships all myself and make that work. And then there's more like I make products and I have heavy focus on wholesale and like that's how I'm scaling to some degree. Do you agree with that perspective on the landscape and what's your current mix of those things in your business?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:14:23]:

Yeah. It definitely is a mix and I really like it because then I have a diverse array of ways to use my creative energy And I'm not just putting my eggs all in one basket. And sometimes I'm motivated to do different things or I'm inspired to do different things. And so working on a painting is such a different experience from working on a set of cards or a new guided journal or a project like that. So it feels great to have different channels to apply myself to. And, yeah, that's definitely kind of ebbed and flowed because there was a period of time where I was just so focused on my wholesale line that I wasn't really putting my energy towards all these other things around me that I could be. And so I'm coming back around to finding the value in having differentiation in the way that I make and, you know, something that really started tugging at me in the last maybe five years was the deep desire to create one of a kind pieces and things that didn't have copies made of it because I was doing so much of that, that wanting to just make one of something felt like, oh, I can add that to my experience. It doesn't have to be exclusively one way of making or one channel of making.

Amelia Hruby [00:15:53]:

I'm always thinking about how diversity benefits an ecosystem in our natural world and also in our business landscapes. I think that small business has been challenging over the past few years, but also always, but the most resilient businesses that I've seen are the ones who have multiple, you know, revenue streams, quote, unquote, but just are doing different types of things, a few different things in their business. And so when one is waning, another is waxing, and we're able to kind of, like, combine both in ways that suit your personal practice like you're describing and also that suit kind of what's happening in the world and in with the market. I guess I wanna say quite literally, and we can lean in and out of things as we go.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:16:41]:

That's exactly it. And I think that's a factor of this time for whatever reason for me too. Like, all their business owners that I know, other artists that I know, diversifying our offerings and having different channels for art, product, service, and self is healthy for the self and also not just business. And so that lands really spot on for me.

Amelia Hruby [00:17:08]:

Something I've always loved about your work is that you are like experimenting creatively and in business with all of these different channels, you know, I've been a fan of Worthwhile Paper for a few years and I've seen you sell cards and stickers, you created a deck, you open a gallery, you offer workshops, you make these one of a kind paintings. What are some of your favorite experiments that you've done in your business and were there any that you felt were, you know, either like a huge success that's worked so well, or perhaps you look back and you're like, oh, that was kind of like a quote unquote failure? I don't know if I'd do it that way again.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:17:42]:

So my favorite experiment has been starting my painting practice because, like I've mentioned, all of my creativity was going towards one outlet for a while. And having this outlet that is creative that was completely separate from my brand was really intentional because I got to this point where I thought everything has to be under the Worthwhile umbrella. And if I were to paint something, it had to be the same colors or the same shapes or the same branded look, and I didn't want that. I really wanted to have an outlet to just make art for art's sake for my own self and keep it separate from my business in a sense, in my practice. And what I learned was that having that outlet actually fueled my business. Like, now I have this fresh, unfiltered inspiration that has come from a different place within myself to then draw inspiration from in my work, it really surprised me how much that positively influenced. So that was my favorite experiment. And I remember it being really hard at the time because I thought, "Oh, if I'm taking time I'm away from my business to do this creative practice. Is my business going to suffer? Am I not putting as many hours in," and all of that, but it ends up delivering a different kind of currency back into the work and all of the work.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:19:13]:

So that was my favorite experiment. And one that was a more of a failure or or something that I didn't continue is is really fresh for me, actually. Last year or maybe the year before, we had a lot of financial abundance. Our business did really well for years. The sales were always topping the year before and it's been like that the entire time that I've been in business except for this year. So I had all this financial abundance, and so I figured I had some play money to try to create a space and fund it myself. That was a gallery and a project space for the community that I'm in.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:19:56]:

And the only way that this could work for me is if I paid for it. There was no politics. There was no funding. It was just so simple and clean. I'm funding this out of my pocket and I'm offering it, period. Not making any money from it. I just want to provide this gallery space for any artist at any level in any background in the community to use as their blank slate to either have an art show or run a workshop or most people used it for art shows. And it was great.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:20:28]:

We had a lot of people and there was a lot of joy and a lot of play, and I loved it. But then it came evident to me that I didn't have the financial freedom that I had before. So my expenses and my profits no longer lined up in a way that made that financially feasible for me. A $475 a month rent payment isn't something that a lot of people can afford. For whatever reason, for one year, it looked like I could take that cost on and run it as an experiment. And it turned out that, you know, finances aren't always linear and things aren't always gonna be the same. So I don't wanna call it a failure as much as I wanna call it a learning experience. But it was one thing that it started and ended after a year.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:21:15]:

And the sad thing that I'm feeling is that it's almost like in order to truly support artists, you have to be at a net loss. Like, you're not gonna profit from supporting artists, but that is a belief that I hope will be debunked very soon because I know that there's a lot of people out there who are supporting artists and being supported themselves. So it just didn't work out with the specific alignment of money and time and location for this experiment, but I feel like I have a lot under my belt now as far as facilitating a community space that I could bring to a future project.

Amelia Hruby [00:21:51]:

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I love that we have in both of these, like they are experiments of abundance. One you kind of came to with fears of scarcity. So with your painting, like, "Oh, no. What if I don't have enough energy or if I have a limited amount? So if I take from here and put it here, that will have less," and you, like, discovered so much abundance, actually. And then in the other, you come in a place of financial abundance and you realize that, like, after a year, the same financial abundance isn't present energetically, financially, what it may be. And I think that it's so interesting all of the different ways that we can come to supporting our own art practices and supporting artists in our communities.

Amelia Hruby [00:22:31]:

And I also really appreciate what you shared about every year you've been in business it was growing until this year or last year and it's just like I think that's very real and I'm wondering if you could say a little more about any realizations you've had around that or how you've processed because I am hearing from a lot of business owners right now that things are not growing as fast as they used to, are not growing at all, are declining or scaling back, and they're having to learn how to adjust. And for you, a piece of that was, "Okay, I don't have this additional money to run a separate whole space inside of my business," but I'm curious like have there been other sort of ramifications of that shift? Has it made you make other changes in your business and how you're proceeding into the year ahead?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:23:19]:

Yeah. It's just a very new experience for me because for nine years straight, I look at my bookkeeping and looking, oh, we've topped our sales from last year, awesome, and just feeling really good. And and so this time, just knowing that my sales were lower, my first strategy is just to really get a hold on my expenses. Like, this year, my business intention is just no big expenses. Like, I'm not gonna pay thousands of dollars for anything right now. So that's that's a new experience where I felt like I could just abundantly donate and spend for my business and this year, it's just it's different. But before thinking, "Oh my gosh, this is gonna be forever. It's gonna go downhill forever." I'm reminded that not every business profits. Like, my husband was telling me, like, "You are an anomaly. Like, businesses don't normally even turn a profit at the end of the year."

Kristen Drozdowski [00:24:12]:

So it's putting some things into perspective that I've maybe been in unique situation to where I've actually turned a profit sometimes. And just knowing that just it's a different situation for me and just navigating the feelings and not trying to jump to conclusions like, "Okay, it's time to burn my whole business down." What can I do to keep my business thriving in a way that doesn't always mean linear growth? And what does it actually mean to thrive? And, you know, what are the alternatives to burning down your business when you don't have as good of a growth year as you did before? How can I stay true to my intentions and still do what I set out to do in a way that continues to support myself and my employees? If I can pay my employees and pay my rent and still make things that people enjoy, that's enough for me. So just getting in touch with what is enough and what can I do to make it sustainable has been my objective this year.

Amelia Hruby [00:25:11]:

We're taking a quick break from the episode because I want to make sure that you know that you can now become an Off the Grid sponsor and share your work during a mid-roll ad like this or in a pre-roll ad before every episode on our feed. In the past seasons of the show, I've shared some of my favorite affiliate partners. If you've heard the Flodesk ad, you know what that's all about. But starting in season three, I've decided to partner with listeners like you to showcase your work and the amazing inspiring things that you're creating and sharing with the world. If you'd like to hear your work shared by me and featured in a spot like this, you can head to the show notes to learn more about our ad opportunities. Whether or not you decide to sponsor an episode, I'm so grateful that you listen to the show, and I hope that you'll check out some of our partners this season, they have amazing free and paid offerings for you, and make sure you click through when you hear them. Okay. Let's go ahead and dive back into this conversation with Kristen. I can't wait to hear more about how she's setting up her business to thrive in 2024 and beyond.

Amelia Hruby [00:26:22]:

Part of the reason we're even having this conversation, I guess the whole reason, is because you replied to one of my emails, which is, like, my favorite thing in the world. But you replied to last season's episode that I shared about getting off of the online business escalator, and you shared that you have discovered over time that you're just much more interested in growing horizontally, then scaling vertically, which is traditional business advice. So I'm curious, could you talk a little bit about what that means to you? We've definitely hit on those themes, but I'd love to just kind of like think about it a little more directly together, this sort of like horizontal versus vertical ways of doing business.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:27:00]:

Yeah. For sure. It's been on my mind so much, and that episode was so validating for me. You should have seen me listening to it in the car. I was, like, nodding my head and being like, "Oh my god. Yes. Finally, someone is saying something that I'm feeling that I haven't really been able to say in that way." And yeah. You know, for me, it's about being where I want to be, honing in on what my true intentions are, and like we've already discussed, the diversification of my offerings. And I definitely feel like I've experienced some version of the escalator, and I definitely feel like I'm getting off on the floor that I want right now and kind of piggybacking on that analogy. It's like you get off at the floor you want, and then you have this whole horizontal plane to explore all of the different rooms that are around the escalator, assuming that the escalator is in, like, a large abandoned mall full of fun things that you like.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:27:59]:

And, like, I also think about this from a plant being perspective as more of a large field to explore than one tall plant. Or maybe there is, like, one big, tall tree, and now I'm focusing on the roots and the branches and the flowers instead of the height or the overall size of just that one plant. Even from a human embodied perspective for me, it's not just, like, that I want to grow in one direction horizontally. It's more of a 360 degree plane. And in my body, it's like reaching for what's in front of me, what's next to me, what's behind me, like, what is all around me and putting my awareness into what what are my opportunities currently that are present with me where I am that maybe I was not paying as much to when I was on this one track to grow my wholesale business thing, and so it it feels like going back to square one, getting excited again and really open to what is actually available for me and like where I'm at right now.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:29:08]:

And so it feels like wholeness and opportunity and diversifying where I'm putting my energy, but still knowing that at this point, after so much time, it's still all for the same thing. At this point, everything can be kind of umbrellaed into one thing because everything I'm doing is with the same mission.

Amelia Hruby [00:29:30]:

Do you feel like that mission is clearly articulated? Like, are you a person who, like, "Here's my mission statement. I could read it to you," or does it is it a feeling? Like, I just wanna double click on that piece. What's what's the mission there?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:29:40]:

Yeah. Good question. Well, my mission with my work is connection and authenticity, creative freedom, and sustainability. And those are my values in my business, but those are also my values in my painting practice, those are also my values in my relationships. And so it starts to become really clear where everything that I wanna do creatively, professionally, personally, it all kind of is under the same umbrella of the same values. So if that makes sense, it's not like one specific mission statement, but just like core values.

Amelia Hruby [00:30:19]:

I love that. I think these are all the ways that we kind of identify the landscape that we're working in and then sort of add, like, the texture and the richness of the experience of being creative people and practitioners. And I also really appreciate you sharing that because I think when we're guided by values, we are able to look around us in 360 degrees, as you described, and also to have clear priorities and to recognize these cycles. So it's always this balance, right, of when we're growing horizontally it doesn't mean we're doing all the things at once all the time, but it does mean that we're allowing ourselves to explore from the foundation of the business that we've built and that we are, I think, kind of pausing and asking if we want to continue up the escalator which was so much of what that episode was about because I'm sure that in the retail space of the business you've built, you know, an escalator might look like exclusive partnerships with major corporations or brands, you know, Worthwhile paper, the Barnes and Noble edition, Worthwhile Paper, oh, I guess they just bought Paper Source, the whole thing there. Anyway, like, there are ways that you could keep growing in this sort of like stationary sphere escalator that sound like they're not interesting to you at this point.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:31:40]:

Right. Well and this just brings up such a good point where there isn't just one way. Like, it shouldn't be like we are only growing vertically or we're only growing horizontally because there's seasons for this. Like I said in the beginning of our interview, I started out my whole thing dabbling in lots of things, then I honed in on one thing and now I'm opening back up. It's kind of like the cycles with flowers and gardening and and also you get to choose. It's not like your 360 degrees is every- now you have to do everything within that sphere. It's like there's still autonomy and you can pick what you want to do. But yeah.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:32:17]:

The feeling grounded and new is kind of where I'm at. But yeah. That that would be the the escalator for me or outsourcing my production or having middle people and not having direct connections. And so that's where I think that I can stay where I am, but still grow. We're growing outwards instead of upwards and it can change over time.

Amelia Hruby [00:32:43]:

Yeah. And it sounds like you are also very focused on staying committed and connected to the act of creation in your business and I think that so much of the escalator is about pulling us as owners or founders out of the business of the actual activity of making because the corporate ladder, which this whole escalator model is related to or even based on perhaps, is a model that comes out of capitalism, is a model that comes out of is a model that comes out of extraction. And within that model, the way to be profitable is to be more and more removed from the act of work itself, from the labor. And as artists and creatives, like, the act of work itself is everything. But when we combine art and business, we get taught that we're supposed to pull ourself farther and farther away from the labor, which is the creation, and then we feel totally alienated from our art. And then how do you run a business based on your art if you're entirely alienated from it because you got stuck on this escalator that everyone tells you to take? Like it's such a it's such a trap.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:33:51]:

Yeah. Yeah. It's delicate.

Amelia Hruby [00:33:53]:

Yeah. And amidst that, you know, we wanna support ourselves. We wanna make money like, make enough money to our lives and our families and our communities and so I'm not diminishing that, but it it is delicate. That's it. I think exactly the word for it.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:34:06]:

Mhmm. There's a balance.

Amelia Hruby [00:34:08]:

Yeah. And once we find our path, then we can build these very resilient ecosystems, and they don't have to be delicate. It's just traversing the business world is the delicate piece of it for us.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:34:22]:

Yes, exactly.

Amelia Hruby [00:34:24]:

So I want to kind of wrap us up, I guess, with a huge question. So maybe a wrap up is not the way to frame this. I wanna add one more layer to this conversation, which is that on the day we're recording this, you are leaving social media.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:34:42]:

It's true.

Amelia Hruby [00:34:44]:

And I just wanna hear about it. I mean, of course, I'm cheering that on, and I think that It had to have been a big decision. So how did you come to this decision and and how's it feeling on this big day?

Kristen Drozdowski [00:34:56]:

Yeah. Thank you. So it's interesting because I set out the beginning of the year, knowing that at some point in this year, I was gonna leave social media, and my original date was going to be the equinox because I like to pick dates like that. But then the more comfortable and confident I got with that choice, I was like, I am ready to not I don't wanna draw this out anymore. Like, I'm, I've had the moments of clarity and was like, "Oh, I can just do this now." And I picked the end of January not even realizing that it was gonna be this day that we're talking, and so it just worked out in just this super fun way. And, you know, there's so much to say, and I'm having a mixed experience. On one hand, this choice is just extremely ripe and nonchalant, and I'm just glad to get it over with.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:35:42]:

And on the other hand, it's super significant. It's been a long time coming. I've been engaging less, spending a lot of time off of the app. And instead of just leaving it hanging like I have been or going through these cycles where I spend two months where I forget about it, and then I pop back on really confused about what I'm doing there. And then I get, you know, I'm not feeling good about it and I leave again. And it's just that making a really clean exit feels really clean for my mind. So I had these series of moments of clarity that made me really confident in this choice. And one of them was that for me right now, I'm more willing to deal with whatever happens being off of it than dealing with being on it anymore.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:36:25]:

And that was just a good clear cut, like, oh, that's a nice way of saying that. And, you know, aside from simply not liking how it hijacks my time and attention, my choice centers on creative autonomy as one of my biggest values. And I feel like on the app, my creativity and my creative freedom and my creative autonomy was not something of value because we're told how to behave to get basically, the basic function of the app met which is connection and visibility and support, etcetera. And it just feels you know, we know it's like a manipulative, it can be a manipulative feeling. And since my work is so centered on well-being and creativity and joy, it really feels like it goes against my values to contextualize my work in a space that perpetuates the opposite of that. So big exhale because that just made me feel really confident in my choice. And personally, it also feels like I have this level of self respect for myself that I shouldn't have to do something that I don't wanna do or that I feel manipulated to do. I think that for a while, I felt like, "Well, I have to be here because x, y, z."

Kristen Drozdowski [00:37:56]:

And it's just not true. I just believe that that doesn't have to be true. And I know that some people don't have this kind of relationship with social media, so it's like vulnerable to share about sometimes, but I just don't like the feeling of feeling like I have to do something that actually makes me feel bad. Like, we shouldn't have to do something that makes us feel bad. And this is different than, "Well, I don't really wanna do my taxes today. I shouldn't have to do my taxes." It's like it's different because it ties into our personhood. It ties into our creativity. It ties into our dignity. And it's just for me, I don't wanna be a representative of an artist on that platform anymore.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:38:51]:

I would rather be a representative of a happy and successful person who is not on social media because that inspires me so much more. So I'm just willing to take the risks. And at this point, I just kind of don't care if there are negative effects because the part of me that feels so good about making a choice that's aligned with my missions and my values is just a lot more strong at this point, then the part of me for years that was worried about what could possibly happen if I took my engagement away from social media. And it's also there's also a piece about how I don't think Instagram is actually the ideal interface or format for the type of output that I enjoy making. I really love large still photos and bigger pieces of writing and spaces without ads and distractions. And so it's like, oh, this just isn't ideal for what I, the way that I like to share. So, yeah, that's my, that's my like reasoning and that's how I'm feeling.

Amelia Hruby [00:40:11]:

Yeah. I really appreciate everything that you just said. I think that the self respect part feels really present to me, like respecting and loving ourselves enough to not make ourselves do things that feel awful. I also think that for small business owners, so much of the reason we start our businesses is so we can do things on our own terms and then to get sucked in to these platforms where we feel the opposite yet again. For me, like, it feels so bad. It felt so bad. And I was like, I'm not willing to do that anymore. And for me, it has represented a willingness to figure it out another way. And that's something I say on this show a lot.

Amelia Hruby [00:40:55]:

Like, yeah, you may take a hit in revenue for a while. You may have to do, like, a much more laborious marketing practice for a while. You may have to try a bunch of new things to figure out how you're gonna maintain the level of success you've had if the app has been a big part of your practice, but, like, I'm willing to do that work. Like, that's okay. I choose that because I am not willing to force myself into the sort of box I don't wanna be in anymore.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:41:23]:

Yeah. That's exactly where I'm coming from. Like, what would you rather struggle with? I would just rather struggle with making changes than the same struggle of feeling like I have to be on this thing that I don't wanna do, and it's not fun for me anymore.

Amelia Hruby [00:41:37]:

I also think that I love the piece that you said, like, you wanna be a representative of an artist who is not on Instagram. And I think that that's really important. I get a lot of pushback from people who wanna say things like, "Well, folks who have already built a following can leave and for those of us who don't have a following, we have to go there and get a following first before we can ever leave." I'm curious if you've experienced that at all or if you have thoughts on it.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:42:02]:

I have experienced that and my thoughts are still processing. It's just it's a different time than it was before. So people who are struggling to get traction on the social media apps, it's just, I can't relate because when I first started my business, I had a lot of traction and it felt really organic. And so I don't have advice to give. I wish I had some advice give, like, here's how you can do it, blah blah blah. But, I mean, from my own experience, all I can say is, like, I've put in my time, man. Like, I've put in 12 to 13 or however many years into this.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:42:41]:

And, like, As far as the pushback, I just wanna say, like, I feel compassionate and understanding to how frustrating that could be for someone who sees a person with a lot of followers being able to feel like free enough to leave. And something I have to say is that I have 58 or something thousand followers on my Worthwhile Paper Instagram account, but my engagement is, like, a fraction of a percentage of that. I probably have, like, a 100 or 500 people out of those 50,000 something that actually see or engage with my work. So I wanna encourage people who are just starting off to say that, like, 500 solid followers or engagers, like, on your, that's that's enough too because that's all I have right now or had. And so numbers that have accumulated over time can be very deceiving.

Amelia Hruby [00:43:31]:

Yeah, I would agree completely. And I think what I would add speaking for myself and this conversation is that in any effort toward liberation, I think that the people with quote unquote more privilege in this instance, I'm not always convinced that a lot of followers is more privileged, but perhaps it is in some social currencies, certainly. Like, those people, we need to be making different decisions and, like, making possible like new, new possibilities for all of us.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:44:03]:

Yes. And you know, you have a different experience of starting a whole new business without a social media following, and I think that's a really important example for people like that who want to feel like they are don't need to be on social media, but don't know where to start or how to build their following. So I think that's a really valuable example.

Amelia Hruby [00:44:24]:

I appreciate that. Thank you. And we need all of us. Like I need your legacy 10-year-old business to show me that people can leave and still have thriving businesses. I mean I think of the Inquire Within deck which was definitely one of the most like Instagrammed products of some of my, like, formative years on Instagram. It was everywhere. And then for you to, like, have that success there and, like, experience and then and then be at a point where you're saying like, "Yeah, but no no more, no longer. It doesn't work that way."

Amelia Hruby [00:44:58]:

We've seen the real clear negative effects of this, and I'm not willing to be a part of that even if it does impact my business ecosystem. I just think that's also a really important example. And I'm excited to see more and more people stepping away either with a lot of followers or no followers. Like, we have to cocreate these possibilities. And that's not to say, like, critique or shame anyone who's choosing to build on social media or staying on social media. But I'm just, honestly, I get a little annoyed at all the people who show up every time someone's going to leave and are just saying like, "Well, you can do that because of this reason, and I can't do that." And I'm just here to be like, you can do that. It's a choice that you can make.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:45:44]:

Absolutely. I mean, I yeah. The compassion piece is also just, like understanding that that's where that's coming from. That person probably really does want to leave. Otherwise, they wouldn't be activated by someone else doing it, and it is hard to navigate. And I'm not here to say that I think this is gonna all go perfectly, but I do feel a level of confidence that this doesn't have to be the way. Like, I truly believe that we are supported more than we realize and that there are other ways. And in this, this is not the only way. So that's what's really bringing me into this new chapter is just that belief.

Amelia Hruby [00:46:26]:

Oh, I love and appreciate that so much. Yeah. I feel like the pathways that seemed to guarantee success in the past don't work anymore and we have to each be really creating our own path forward as creative business owners and those of us who are actually enthused and energized by the creative process can step into that with that energy as we can harness it. And the folks who, you know, really just are looking for that 10 step path to success to work, I think we have to find different ways forward. We have to be artists and business owners maybe is what I wanna say.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:47:07]:

Yeah, I love that and I agree.

Amelia Hruby [00:47:10]:

And you have 10 years of self trust and experience and proof that you can make this business work in many different iterations. And I look to people like you and you're like open sharing and honesty as, I don't know, it's evidence that we can all do this. It's evidence that more of us can do this. So thank you for being here and thank you for sharing all of it.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:47:31]:

Oh, for sure. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to share and to talk with you. It's just, this is also fresh and relevant to me, and I hope that it is a great way of making some connections too.

Amelia Hruby [00:47:45]:

Yeah, of course, of course. Well, we will put all of the links to your work and everything you do in the show notes. And I hope to have you back, you know, in a year or so and and hear how your time off social has gone and what has evolved in that that year.

Kristen Drozdowski [00:47:59]:

Yeah. Let's see how it goes.

Amelia Hruby [00:48:03]:

Beautiful. Well, thank you, Kristen, again for being here. Thank you, listeners, for joining us. And until next time, we will see you off the grid.

Amelia Hruby [00:48:15]:

Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at offthegrid.fun/toolkit. This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Melissa Kaitlyn Carter of Making Audio Magic, and our logo is by n'Atelier Studio. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby. And until next time, I'll see you off the grid and on the Interweb.