🌱 Embracing Seasonal Transitions & Shifts in Your Business — with Yarrow Magdalena

Amelia Hruby [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients. Hello, and welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast about leaving social media without losing all your clients. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby. I am the founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. And here on this show, I am your fellow traveler and guide on this journey of doing business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty. If you're new to this podcast, welcome. I am so glad that you're here.

Amelia Hruby [00:00:50]:
Make sure that you head to the show notes and grab the free Leaving Social Media Toolkit. It includes the three tools that I used to leave social media and start a business without it, and it pairs with the first few episodes of season one of this show. It's a great way to dive into everything that Off the Grid has to offer, and then there's even more on the pod feed for you to explore. So again, you can head to offthegrid.fun/toolkit or the show notes to get that today.

Amelia Hruby [00:01:20]:
If you are a longtime listener, if you've already got the toolkit, welcome back to season three of Off the Grid. I am so grateful for your time, for your attention, for your care. I've noticed we've gotten a few new five star ratings for the show, so thank you if you're one of the people who's left one of those. And if you're tuned in when you're releasing this and you live in the northern hemisphere, then happy spring. This episode is coming out right after the spring equinox when day night are equal lengths and we find ourselves in that liminal place between seasons.

Amelia Hruby [00:02:02]:
I don't know about where you live, but where I live, we are currently ping ponging back and forth between winter and spring. It's like sunny day, beautiful breeze, everyone's in shorts, and then frigid day, icy drizzle, everyone's in a giant coat and a hat and, like, grumpy about it getting cold again. So as I've been experiencing these big swings and shifts in the external weather, I have also been reflecting on the shifts in my internal weather and thinking about how seasonal shifts impact my business and how, really, they influence everything from my energy that I bring to the business day to day to my marketing and how much outreach I'm doing to, honestly, even my revenue has pretty big shifts from season to season. So as I was reflecting on this, I realized that I wanted to have a conversation with today's guest who is a business owner I have long admired and one who left social media years before I did. So I'm really, really excited to speak to them about seasonality in our businesses, and let me introduce them so we can dive on in.

Amelia Hruby [00:03:13]:
Yarrow Magdalena is a web designer, software consultant, and artist living on the East Coast of Scotland. They support people in building sustainable, joyous livelihoods and creative practices grounded in pleasure. Yarrow also hosts the Embodied Business Podcast, the Making and Mending Podcast, and the Stitching Together Community. You can find them at pinkwellstudio.com and yarrowmagdalena.com. Hi, Yarrow. Welcome to Off the Grid.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:03:40]:
Woah. I can't tell you how happy I am to be here. It's really wonderful to be on the other side of things for change and to catch up with you as well. Thank you so much for having me.

Amelia Hruby [00:03:50]:
I think I first encountered your work on social media five years ago or more now, and I've always admired how adaptable you are and how, at least from my perspective, you seem to really embrace a sense of flow in your work, and you allow your business to change from season to season so that it can really suit your life. I'm wondering as an opening point for our conversation, could you speak a little bit to how you came to this seasonal shifting approach and how you embed or embody seasonality in your work?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:04:31]:
Yes. Absolutely. I have been doing this for a little bit over nine years now, and at the core of my work has often always actually been work design. I'm a Libra moon, and I like this idea of just, like, really wanting to make things beautiful, you know, beautiful and simple and joyous. And I still feel a real sense of enchantment and play in web design. And I never thought in my twenties that I would be someone who finds something that they love so much for a really long time. But you're right. There's been a lot of fluidity in other areas of my work.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:05:06]:
I've offered group programs. I facilitate a long term community. I have courses. Sometimes I was mentoring. At the moment, I'm offering tech days, and sometimes I also offer art. I've been writing, and I really love all of these things. And I need to allow myself a little bit of space to kind of move in and out of them as I can and want to as my body allows and as I feel inspired to. And I think this kind of sense of, like, acceptance around sometimes I change my mind and sometimes, you know, sometimes it's winter and things need to die back is coming from a place of just kind of knowing that I can't be anyone but myself. I think that's really important and sounds so simple, but it's really hard to embody especially if you are on social media because there are so many stories about who you want to be and what your business is meant to look like.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:06:04]:
But I'm now really trying to spend time in the landscape to have simple daily rituals, to allow spaciousness for this process of even knowing what I want to do in my work and what feels important right now. And I really value these things and this time that I spend in them as part of my work. And I think that's been another really big mental shift because it's so easy to be like, oh, I'm taking a day off to reflect or, like, I am, like, treating myself to journaling or to candlelit evenings. But I really see that as, like, an integral part of my work now because I know that it helps me show up the way I want to, and it helps me find clarity and make good decisions. And that's not easy. And certainly in the first, I would say, four or five years, I found it so hard to decide between all these exciting things I could have been doing and to really kind of ground myself in a sense of season and, like, what is right at what time. That's hard one. Yeah.

Amelia Hruby [00:07:08]:
I really love this piece you brought up about how that simple example of the candlelight ritual or the long walk, like, it's not a bonus part of your day or like a one time sort of thing you build in to, you know, heal your burnout with one journaling session, which I think many of us have tried to do, but it's actually like embedded into your daily practices and rituals. And I think that's something that can be really hard for me because I get pulled into the urgency of the work or what my clients want from me or what other people are asking from me even every time I open my inbox. And it's so easy for me to intend to light the candle and then go reply to an email instead, and the candle never gets lit instead of reorienting how I work. So, like, the things that are actually important to me are what I do first instead of the things that other people are telling me are urgent.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:08:08]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Amelia Hruby [00:08:10]:
Since we're at this transitional moment in the external seasons from winter and spring, can you paint us a picture a bit of, like, what is winter like in your business and in your work?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:08:23]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think I will start by saying what winter is like where I live because it really defines how my business is as well. So I live in Scotland, which is fairly far north, and it means that around the winter solstice it gets dark, at about 3:30 in the afternoon. So there's not a lot of light around here. And for me, it's this really deep, cozy, velvety, reflective time. And I think this has been my fourth winter in Scotland now, and I've learned that you really have to embrace it. You know, there's just no way to fight it.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:08:59]:
And so I'm really having to take extra good care of myself, and that means, like you said, candlelight. I have an electric blanket. I have a little front garden, which is south facing, and it has this little bench on it that I painted pink, which I call my mental health bench. And whenever there is a little bit of light, I sit outside and try to catch it. And, have a beautiful home for me. I mean, it might not be everyone's taste, but I love being here. I love working from home, and I love kind of the sweetness of the space that I created for myself. And in my business, I'm really trying to take a good chunk time off over the holidays, at least two or three weeks.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:09:42]:
But I'm also trying to give my body and especially my eyes kind of transition time every afternoon after work because there's no daylight outside, and it's kind of a bit jarring to spend time looking at screens all day and then suddenly be in, like, darkness and candlelight. Right? So I like those transitions, and I think I'm acknowledging that sharing and that being kind of exuberant and creative and exciting maybe doesn't come as easily to me in winter. So when it becomes dark and autumn, I usually start to start thinking about, you know, what is my podcasting schedule like? What might I share about a menu setter? And I become a little bit more organized with my content sharing. Whereas I think in spring and summer, there's a little bit more, like, playfulness around that, and I don't have to have so rigid a schedule. Although in any season, there's always flexibility for me. But I think it also reflects in the kind work that I do.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:10:43]:
If I do run group programs, I'm usually thinking very carefully about the energy that they have and whether they fit better in the summer or in winter. And if I have run winter programs, they usually kind of reflective and they have quiet time together. They're not so much about, like, growing and making necessarily. So I really try to have what I do mirror the season. And I think when we're in the stage where spring is slowly coming, there's also the scent of maybe spring cleaning almost where I'm thinking about, you know, what has gone to seed, what has maybe fertilized the soil a bit over winter, and then very gently, what seeds do I want to plant?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:11:26]:
And I think there's been different stages in my business where sometimes I really wanted to be in the year long plan. And certainly, there's a five year plan, you know, but that's a lot more abstract. And and then there's been periods in my business where, I just was able to look three months ahead and that was it. And I think both is valid. It just depends on where you add and what you currently need in your work and how how steady you feel in your decisions, I guess. So, I don't think there's always, like, a right or wrong way of doing it.

Amelia Hruby [00:11:59]:
A lot of embracing seasonality in our businesses is sort of living in this space between the present moment and what's to come. And I do think that seasonality invites us into the present both internally and externally and allows us to kind of think about how we're aligning our bodies with what's happening in the world around us. And we can align our business practices in the same way, which is what I'm hearing you share, you know, in doing maybe less marketing in the winter, offering fewer group programs in the winter, or if they are offered, making sure they're really bringing that sort of winter energy to the work that's being done or how it's structured.

Amelia Hruby [00:12:45]:
And I also love what you said about thinking about your podcast in the winter versus the spring and how in a winter season, you are structuring the content a little more, slowing it down and structuring it. And then in other seasons like spring, you can bring more playfulness and maybe increase the frequency and let it be a little more sporadic or like, you know, sometimes coming out more often or multiple times a week, whereas in the winter, maybe it's like a once a month sort of schedule. And in these slower, more reflective seasons, we can implement and lean on systems to keep our work tended to and warm, keep our communities nourished. And in the, you know, more active seasons, perhaps, that's when we have the energy to be, like, really present, to be, like, really on with our content and our sharing and our making and our creating. And then the systems can feel a little constrictive. It's like, I have that definitely where I'm like, "I don't want to only publish once a week," even with Off the Grid. I was like, "I need more." But in the winter, I would never. In the winter I'm like, "Less, please. I would like to hide from everyone."

Amelia Hruby [00:14:03]:
So this is really just a reflection on a seed of what you just shared that felt really resonant around winter is a season for, like, leaning on systems and structures to continue supporting our business, and spring is a season for sort of planting seeds and, you know, watching them start to sprout maybe, like, all around the structures and different then and break the structures a little bit and enjoying that playfulness. I wanted to take another step into this transitional moment. Like, how are you tending to yourself and your business, like, in these exact weeks where we are in this transition between winter and spring?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:14:51]:
On a practical level, for example, I have just this afternoon looked at my other website. So I have, Pink Well Studio, which is web design courses and software support, and then, I have yarrowmagalena.com, which is my creative practice and sometimes school programs and sometimes handmade things that I made. And I've just the creative practice decluttered a few pages and have just, you know, just made them private, simplified things a little bit, And that feels to me almost like putting the garden to bed, which obviously is a bit cyclical because, actually, spring is coming and, a lot of things are coming up. But I think I'm really taking stock in this moment of, like, you know, what has emerged in the cocoon of winter, what maybe wants to stay in the cocoon a little bit longer, and what is coming forward, and how do I, support my business and my body in this transition as well.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:15:47]:
There's a really interesting German word called feeling frühjahrsmüdigkeit, which is a special kind of tiredness you get in this transition from winter to spring. And I think it really makes sense because, you know, we have been a little bit more sleepy and maybe a little bit slower, and then and then the shift is happening. So I'm really trying to pay attention to kind of where my energy goes, be that how many newsletters I'm subscribed to, you know, how many podcasts I listen to, how I engage with the news more widely, what I'm taking in at this time. I think that's always important, but especially right now, I want to regulate a little bit kind of what is coming in and not fall into this kind of invitation of, like, you know, bigger is always better, and I wanna grow at all costs, and everything has to be grown. And I think that's something that feels true for a lot of people at the moment.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:16:43]:
There is, you know, obviously, a lot of anxiety in the air, a lot of uncertainty about how the rest of the year is gonna unfold for all of us. But I think it's tempting sometimes to be reactive to that rather than, to slow down and be discerning and really asking what can I do, what is mine, and what can I put to the side for now, or where can I trust other people and support them in doing what they can do to support what I think should be done, basically? Yeah. I think the salmon is a big thing. Kind of reviewing is a big thing for me at the moment in this transition.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:17:25]:
And then also just allowing myself excitement because I know there's a lot to come in spring and summer that I feel really good about, and I wanna really get myself feel that playful, joyous excitement. Yeah. I think every season is beautiful in its own way. But I know there are certain things that are only coming through really in the summer when I have more light and I'm outside even more and there's more energy and I need to sleep as well. I'm excited about my summer writing, for example. I'm really looking forward to that.

Amelia Hruby [00:17:58]:
As you were speaking, I was thinking of sort of the things I witness in the natural world around me where I live, and I was just reminded of how all fall and winter, I watched the squirrels like tuck their acorns into the garden in my backyard. I think because the ground is softer there. So they're always like, you know, they're saving them away. They're squirreling them away quite literally. And then in the spring, a big practice for me is I have to go out to the garden and I have to pull all of the random stuff the squirrels have put into the soil out of the soil so I can grow some plants and not just be, like, growing trees.

Amelia Hruby [00:18:39]:
And that was feeling to me so analogous or related to this process you were describing of, you know, you've been all winter, perhaps we're kind of like gathering our books around us, gathering our podcasts, gathering our blankets, and a stage of this transition into spring is actually a cleaning or a clearing process because it can be really easy to enter spring and then just, like, pile spring on top of those piles that we accumulated in the winter. And I've always found that if if we're creating space, if these transitional moments, if we can use them as a type of void or to kind of invite in a void, then we could actually be, like, filled with what the next season is bringing us and reconnected to what we're actually desiring for that season, and what we wanna carry forward as you said. Like, what do we want to carry forward and what wants to stay in the cocoon of winter and and live there longer? So I love thinking about it in this way.

Amelia Hruby [00:19:43]:
Hey there, lovely Off the Grid listener. We're taking a quick break from the episode because I want to make sure that you know that you can now become an Off the Grid sponsor and share your work during a mid-roll ad like this or in a pre-roll ad before every episode on our feed. In the past seasons of the show, I've shared some of my favorite affiliate partners. If you've heard the Flodesk ad, you know what that's all about. But starting in season three, I've decided to partner with listeners like you to showcase your work and the amazing inspiring things that you're creating and sharing with the world.

Amelia Hruby [00:20:20]:
There are so many fun ways to sponsor an episode or a week of the show and to share your work with our amazing community of small business owners and creatives all over the US and abroad. If you'd like to hear your work shared by me and featured in a spot like this, you can head to the show notes to learn more about our ad opportunities. Whether or not you decide to sponsor an episode, I'm so grateful that you listened to the show, and I hope that you'll check out some of our partners this season. They have amazing free and paid offerings for you and make sure you click through when you hear them. Okay. Enough about our sponsorship opportunities. Let's go ahead and dive back into this conversation.

Amelia Hruby [00:21:04]:
I'd love to maybe shift our focus a little bit at this point and talk about social media. I'm wondering if you could share with listeners a little bit of your journey being on social media and leaving, which I know has been quite a few years ago now. Could you tell us a little bit about why you used to be on social media and then why you left and how it's been going since then?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:21:30]:
So I started my business in 2015 and, honestly, there's no particular reason for why I was on social media. And it's just because everyone was and the first step I took in my business was to join an eight week business program in the early spring of 2015. And I went into that program not really having a super clear idea about what my business would look like, but I kind of got swept up in the group energy. Everyone was on Instagram, and so I joined. And for a few years, I posted really almost every single day. I was kind of before Reels, so I left before Reels. I don't know what that business is about, to be honest.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:22:14]:
But I did post on the feed every day and I did experience that period of grief where suddenly it wasn't chronological anymore and you had to really think so much more carefully about your Stories and all kinds of silly stuff. And I think there were definitely things that I enjoyed about it. I came across incredible people, made really great connections. I was part of conversations that I felt excited about. And I think I also had this playfulness of being able to share kind of short snippets and get immediate feedback. And I think there can be sometimes something really creatively exciting about that. And I think maybe especially in the early stages of my business, that immediacy was really helpful and me being like, "Okay. What if I did this? And this is how that feels and this is the feedback I get for these ideas" and so forth.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:23:03]:
But in 2019, I moved to Scotland and I kind of reassessed a lot of areas of my life. I knew I really wanted to be more creative. I wanted to have more time to think, less time on screens. I really wanted to become part of local community. I've been living in Brighton before, which was also great, but I never felt as committed, I think, to that, particular geographic location. But I knew, you know, Scotland had been a dream a long time in the making, and the time had finally come. And I really wanted to be here rather than be on my phone. And I used an app in the summer of 2019 to measure how much time I was spending on the different social media apps and turned out that I was spending about 10 hours a week on Instagram, which was just so shocking to me at the time. And and at the same time, I think that was totally normal, you know, for a small business owner to spend that much time. It's not uncommon and probably still isn't.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:24:02]:
And, yeah, I was thinking really hard, you know, what if I had those 10 hours back? What would that mean for myself and my work and how I feel? And, of course, I had all these anxieties we have when we think about letting go of something that has in some ways worked for us. And I just took an initial break, so I deactivated my account for six months just since an experiment. And I didn't just leave, I did a few things. For example, I made, like, a long associate list of all the people I wanted to stay in touch with, maybe as a podcast guest or in some way. I also, I think, spent two weeks or so regularly posting about the fact that I was gonna leave and sharing other ways people could stay in touch with me. And then I left.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:24:50]:
And it was a really beautiful half year, and actually nothing really changed dramatically in my business. I still had the same amount of clients, the same amount of people in my groups, and I felt really good. Had more time. And I think it wasn't like an immediate switch. I think before I left, maybe it was a little bit more hopeful about I was like, "Okay. I get these 10 extra hours. This is what I'm gonna do." You know? But, obviously, that's not how our brains work necessarily, and I definitely had this, like, almost period of withdrawal where I still picked my phone up and wanted that dopamine hit, and it didn't come because the app wasn't there anymore.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:25:31]:
And I came back to Instagram in the beginning of 2020 when the pandemic hit because I just couldn't imagine not being there, to be totally honest. Right? Like, I just wanted to see what everyone was eating and what their animals were doing. And I kind of got sucked back into sharing about my business as well because that is also who I am. And so what else, you know, like, that's just what you did, I guess. And, yeah, I I think 2020 was a particular experience, obviously, and being on Instagram, I don't think it's representative for what the experience of being on there is as a whole. But I think it was a crutch for my nervous system. That's how I think about it.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:26:17]:
And I left just before Christmas in 2020, because I felt like I had enough, and I wanted to spend more quality time online with my family and friends and loved ones rather than just doomscrolling. And this time, I really deleted it completely. So there was no way back for me. I had six and a half thousand followers, which is so silly even, you know, for some people that's a ton. For some people, it's nothing. I think it's totally relative. And also it doesn't really matter, but because these people were not really that engaged anyway, because, again, that's not how it works. Right?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:26:55]:
But I think what gave me confidence to leave was that I had been a long term podcaster, and I trusted my own sense of consistency because I had been sending my newsletter and doing my podcast for many years at that point. And, that really worked. I just made people aware that I was really leaving for good this time and had an uptick in new set of subscribers. And I just kept podcasting ever since. And I think when I say consistency, I just wanna name that I love how you podcast so much. That's like podcast goals. Right? Your episodes are beautifully edited. You have a clear plan. It's so, you know, I can really drop into it because I know what to expect and it's gorgeous. That's to be totally honest, is not how a podcast.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:27:42]:
I have been podcasting for seven or eight years now. I think it's the eight, actually. Yeah. It's the eight. But, and I have maybe produced, like, 250 episodes or something, which I'm happy with, but there's definitely never been that, like, super regular weekly or biweekly schedule. I've also had periods or seasons without guests because that feels a little bit easier for me. But I really love the idea of each of us identifying our own sense of consistency. And for me, that is trusting myself and always coming back to the practice of sharing in a way that's honest and generous. And that's actually so simple, and it really has worked for me.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:28:24]:
And one last thing I will say about leaving social media, like, people often ask me, you know, could I leave because I had been on there for some years, or, like, would I recommend someone who's starting out now to not be on social media at all? I really feel quite strongly that my recommendation probably would still be don't bother for most people because I think the price we pay can be so high unless we're extremely mentally resilient people who have a super clear idea and know we're not gonna, you know, look to the left and right and get into comparison or not good enoughness. It is hard to be unaffected, I think, by the temptation to always be on and to give the people what we think they want.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:29:13]:
And I think there are so many more beautiful ways to share and build community. You share so many of them. I love podcasting. I love all kinds of DIY media. I love zines. I love self published books. I love community workshops, just having chats with people. And I think yeah. Like, not doing something that doesn't feel good really opens the door to creativity that we often can't imagine when we're still under pressure. And I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but I think, yeah, my invitation would really be always to think very carefully about whether it has to be social media.

Amelia Hruby [00:29:52]:
I feel a real kinship with your work and your business, in that I feel like we are both running service based businesses that are also embedded with our creative spirits, and we're connected to how many clients we need in any given season. And that number is not, you know, tons. It's a manageable number of humans we can actually know, and we're able to build and deepen relationships that can consistently bring those people into our ecosystem. And that's what makes the business work and what makes it sustainable.

Amelia Hruby [00:30:35]:
And so much of the types of growth that I see talked about on social media and the types of businesses that I see lauded, even just an online business more broadly on or off social media, they're all about getting as many people into your world as possible. They're all about scaling. They're all about all of these different growth metrics. And at the end of the day, that is one type of business that you can build, and maybe that type of business does need social media. But if you don't want to be on social media, you can also build a business where you just offer a clear service that's of value, and you share about it consistently, whatever that consistency is for you, and you just continually connect with people and like over years, that will build your business.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:31:29]:
I've really been, like, an apprentice to slowness and smallness the last two years. And I wish that someone had shared, you know, these things that I've started to feel in that time with me early on because yeah, like you said, it's so tempting to think scrolling is the shit, and it's always the right thing to do. And I think there's also this narrative that if you feel uncomfortable with a lot of visibility, then there's something that you need to fix and you're tractored or something I think. I get it. Like, it is really meaningful and important to think about what it means to be seen.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:32:08]:
And if that's uncomfortable, is there anything that I can, you know, do to support myself to be more comfortable? Because it is important to be seen in your business and to be able to clearly articulate what it is that you do and who you'd like to work with. But I think social media has also kind of, like, really warped the sense of fame and following in this strange way. And I think there are really good reasons for being uncomfortable with unlimited exposure or to just not want that, you know. I think it's okay to not want to have a 100,000 followers, and it's tricky to be on social media and allow yourself that place.

Amelia Hruby [00:32:48]:
I can really relate to this sense of desiring different degrees or amounts of visibility. And I agree with you that there's this sort of message that you should want to be maximally visible in your business because you should want to be in front of the most people possible so you can make the most money possible. And that messaging really only applies in certain business models. Right? There are so many types of businesses that do not need and, in fact, would not benefit from being in front of thousands and thousands of people.

Amelia Hruby [00:33:28]:
And we have really societally or at least within the online marketing world, I think falsely conflated visibility with social media visibility or visibility with follower count or even visibility with audience size. Like, we can reconceive visibility as being seen and understood and valued by specifically the communities that we want our work to be in front of. And that may only be six people, and you're like a high power consultant, and you make a great living being seen by those six people. I think that these, like, equations or, like, direct causal connections we draw between audience size and the amount of money we're making or the amount of success we have, like, they aren't true.

Amelia Hruby [00:34:18]:
They're sort of some of the myths that I'm trying to deconstruct on this show, and then it's much more about being in touch with the type of business you're running and understanding how many people you need to be paying attention to that business for you to be making the amount of money you want to make. And then from that place, reconnecting with yourself and saying like, "Okay. Have I done the personal work I need to do so that, you know, my nervous system can handle being visible to that degree?" Because, of course I think that's a part of the equation. I mean, that's work that I've had to do.

Amelia Hruby [00:34:54]:
It felt so different to run this podcast when no episode got more than a 100 downloads, than it does now when, you know, every episode gets more than a 1000 downloads. Like, it feels very different, and I want to acknowledge that. Like, I have had to do work to feel comfortable with this new degree of visibility and openness. I've had to re regulate my nervous system around it. I still have to, it's not like, you know, nervous system work is not one and done, but I've been able to expand my window of tolerance by doing that work over time. And I'll have to keep doing that as it keeps growing. And the reason I'm growing it is because of the business model I've chosen, which is, you know, a very affordable low cost membership, which means that I do need to be in front of more people. And I chose this every step of the way instead of just, like, defaulting to these narratives.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:35:51]:
I love that intentionality. I think thinking about being in the right business model truly is so important and is so interrelated with how we share and build community and what our intentions are with that. So love that.

Amelia Hruby [00:36:06]:
I also appreciated what you shared about your version of podcast consistency. You have been a very consistent podcaster in the longevity of your practice but that doesn't mean that you're, like, making it at the same frequency or cadence at any given time. And I'm curious, could you share a little bit more about how you embrace that type of, you know, fluidity in your marketing over time? Like, how often do you send your emails? Like, what else are you doing in marketing? And, like, what's your sort of cadence and pacing with that?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:36:42]:
I'd loved to share the many practical numerical stuff, but I also would love to kind of tie it back to money and shame before I get there because I think that's relevant to how I got there. So I had an accident three years ago, in kind of the first deep winter lockdown. I slipped at the top of my stairs. I broke my leg really badly. I needed two surgeries. I have another one coming up next week, and the accident really, limited my mobility. And I also meant that I've been living with, chronic pain the last three years. And I think that really forced me to slow down so much and think about what is just about good enough in my business. I remember the first time I came back from the hospital, I had, like, a community program running. And people were super kind and understanding, and I kept facilitating.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:37:32]:
But I dropped a lot of things that were not essential to me at all. So I there was a long period where I didn't bring out any episodes and think I missed a a newsletter or two, and I just didn't do anything that wasn't totally essential. And it really made me think about kind of rhythm and sustainability in my business and output, but also really much more carefully about goals and money and shame related to these things because I think a big gift that this accident gave me together with the pandemic and lots of other stuff that was going on in my life was the permission to kind of, you know, really lower the bar to the ground and just be like, if I keep going, that's a win. And if I can support myself financially, that's a win. But really, what does that even mean? Because I think, again, up to that point, I was I hadn't been on social media anymore when I fell. Actually, I I left two weeks before.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:38:31]:
But I was obviously still swimming in the sea of, like, you know, scaling and bigger is better and stuff. And I think this kind of deep introspection of, like, a really long winter season where it felt my my lockdown was, like, an extra year because I was homebound. It gave me all this time to think about, you know, what do I really want to do with my life? And what an upper limit that I can really joyfully, embrace? Because I think so often there's shame about money in all kinds of ways. Like, it's not cool to want more of it. But if you grew up without having it, that's something really shameful too. And, like, you know, you can't really under capitalism do it right. That's kind of feels clear to me.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:39:19]:
And I had definitely in the years prior to the accident known that I wanted more and I wanted to grow in certain ways, but I had found it really hard to define a number. And in that moment, I turned around and was like, hold on a minute. Like, what if the next two or three years are more about just sustenance for myself, just kind of meeting my needs, and then, you know, I'll see how I wanna grow from there. And that was so liberating for me to ask myself, like, what is just the minimum that I need to earn to be okay? And that's been kind of like my guidepost and how I've been putting out in the last three years.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:39:57]:
Because I had given myself that permission and it's deeply uncool, you know. And I am someone who, like, I support other people in growing their business. So there's something kind of funny in saying, like, I'm actually okay to be stagnant right now because I integrate a lot. I integrate this growth that I've been experiencing for the first six years of my business. In the last three years, just really going slower and thinking about the future. And I know growth is coming from me, and I know also inner growth has been happening in really exciting ways.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:40:29]:
But now to circle back to answer your actual question. I send my newsletter once a month. That feels good enough for me. It keeps me top of mind and the community I've cultivated. I share episodes that have come out in the past month. I share about my life, and I remind people how to book a call with me if they want to think about working together. And that's it. So it's a pretty simple newsletter, but I love it. I love writing it.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:40:57]:
Some iterations maybe, you know, there's definitely been over the years a few that was a bit meh. I didn't have enough energy or didn't feel like I had meaningful stuff to say, but it's been extremely consistent. It does come out every month. And a podcast, bring out two or three episodes a month on average, I would say. I never go longer than a month on either of my podcast without an episode except for the six month break that I gave myself on the Making and Mending show. So, yeah, there is its own kind of consistency. But like you said earlier, I don't need that many people. I'm a service based business, and that's my main income.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:41:36]:
And I've really found in especially since I left social media that when I pay attention, I can see that 70 to 80% of my clients come through recommendations from people who have already worked for with me. So really the best marketing I can ever ever do is just to do a good job and make people feel happy about what they got from me, and they will tell other people. And, yeah, I think I could sometimes do a better job of reminding them. You know? Because I think if it's not necessarily top of mind for people, but it's just good maybe at the end of a project to say, like, "Hey. You know, if this is good for you, maybe tell someone that would be so appreciated." But, yeah, I love this way of working.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:42:22]:
And and then I think some of my clients have been listening for the to the podcast for a long time, and it's also a nice way to stay in touch with clients. I often answer questions like you do that I get from my clients, and then everyone gets to hear the answer and that feels kind of, like, really sweet and simple, and I don't have to overthink it. And, yeah, I'm really resting in this space at the moment of being good enough and appreciating different kinds of growth.

Amelia Hruby [00:42:49]:
Oh, thank you for sharing. I'm really struck by, again, just the deep listening that you do to your life and to the world around you and your practice of consistently aligning your life and your work and noticing when you're in a season where, yeah, we've put the bar on the floor, and also being open to when you might be reentering a season of growth, and we're raising it, and we're doing a little more and that ebb and flow.

Amelia Hruby [00:43:22]:
I can share in my own business. I'm definitely in this period of, like, big audacious goals and growth. And I've raised all of my bars for what I'm hoping for for myself in the business. And that's really tied to some very specific financial goals I have. I really want to buy the home that I live in, so that my partner, my dog and I can stay here for a really long time. But I'm already looking forward to the the point on the horizon when I've met that goal and I can scale back and, like, pull it all back. Like, I don't see this as something that I want to always be getting bigger, always be doing more.

Amelia Hruby [00:44:02]:
I'm trying to think of it as a business and a practice where, okay, it can expand in this moment. It can bring in this money to build this foundation for my life. And then also when I have done that, it can contract, and I can work less, and I can make less money, but perhaps more art or more other things that I wanna be doing instead of, I'm just, I'm really trying to stay centered in the fact that, like, this is not forever. And also, it's not all my choice. You know? Things can happen in our lives that impact us. Things can happen in our businesses. Sometimes you're, like, ready to grow and your business or the market is like, "I don't have any clients for you right now." And you're like, that's a bummer. But, yeah, just this responsiveness, this this willingness to align this, like, fluidity is is really something I always appreciate learning from you and how you show up.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:45:01]:
Thank you. Yeah. I know this goal for you and your home. I think there's so much self trust in defining your goals and really tying it to something grounded and earthy because I think some of us, even very unconsciously, might feel some sense of shame about wanting more, you know, it can be like, oh, am I greedy or am I selfish? But actually, what could be more human? Right? I wanna eat well. I want to have time for my friends. I want health care. Those are all totally okay and human things to want. There's nothing wrong with that at all. And I think acknowledging that, you know, maybe you'll meet this goal and then actually it's time to rest a little bit again. I think, just makes me feel so self trusting to know that I'm not actually a greedy person. I have specific goals for good reasons. I trust myself to make them happen, and then I can also let go a little bit again, you know?

Amelia Hruby [00:46:02]:
Yeah. It's that process of self reflection that can build that self trust over time. I really appreciate you saying that because I think the journey many of us have to go on is we're taught all of these things we should want, and we orient our work and our lives toward that. And we have to be willing to question that. Like, do I want to fly on a private jet? Actually, no. I don't care about that at all. I don't need to orient my earnings toward that.

Amelia Hruby [00:46:35]:
So we have to unlearn these narratives of what we're supposed to desire, uncover what we actually desire, and then I think, like, unabashedly orient our life toward those things. Letting ourselves want what we want, trying to provide for those desires and those needs, and I completely agree with you. Those needs, especially when they are secure housing, good food, health care, and then also when they are, like, a beautiful dress or an amazing vacation. You know? If it's what you're really internally, in alignmentally desiring, then I want that for you, for anyone listening.

Yarrow Magdelena [00:47:19]:
Yeah. Me too.

Amelia Hruby [00:47:20]:
And it is about having that self trust that you know that you've landed on this desire. You've arrived here because it is really what you want, not what you were told you should want for yourself or your business. Well, I feel like that is a beautiful place to wrap up our conversation. Is there anything else that you'd like to share or reflect on together or with listeners?

Yarrow Magdelena [00:47:48]:
Oh, Amelia, it's been so beautiful to talk to you. I'm sitting here by candlelight. I'm kind of glowing. I feel peaceful and grounded and a little bit hopeful for all of us. And despite the times we're in, I think I'm just happy that we're making media, and we're talking to each other, and we're sharing these conversations. And hope more people would do it and come join us. But, yeah, I'm just grateful you asked wonderful questions, and it was really great to talk to you.

Amelia Hruby [00:48:20]:
Well, thank you for for bringing yourself and all of your stories to this conversation. And I'll just encourage listeners to find you online at pinkwellstudio.com and yarrowmagdalena.com. All of that will be linked in the show notes as well your podcast and other ways to connect with you. And listeners, thank you for being here. Thank you for spending this time with us. I hope that you're able to lean into this transition from winter to spring and embody a little more seasonality in your business. And until next time, we will see you off the grid.

Amelia Hruby [00:49:04]:
Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at offthegrid.fun/toolkit. This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Melissa Kaitlyn Carter of Making Audio Magic, and our logo is by n'Atelier Studio. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby, and until next time, I'll see you off the grid and on the Interweb.