☠️ Are Lead Magnets Dead?

Amelia Hruby [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients. Hello, and welcome or welcome back to Off the Grid, a podcast about leaving social media without losing all your clients. I'm Amelia Hruby. I am the founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. And on this show, I share stories, strategies, and experiments for growing your business with radical generosity, energetic sovereignty and no or minimal social media presence.

Amelia Hruby [00:00:51]:
If you're new around here, welcome to the podcast. We have over 60 episodes that are going to share marketing strategies, stories from small business owners, and honestly, some of my just, like, hot takes, fresh perspectives, musings on marketing for online businesses. And if you like those, you are definitely going to enjoy the free Leaving Social Media Toolkit, which is a resource that I created to pair with the first four episodes of the show and which you can get at offthegrid.fun/toolkit or linked in the show notes.

Amelia Hruby [00:01:30]:
We are currently in season three of Off the Grid. We are headed toward the end of the season, in fact, and I was realizing two things. One, I haven't done a solo episode in a minute, and I wanted to get back on the mic and speak directly to all of you. And two, I don't think we've talked about a specific marketing strategy this season, or at least I haven't devoted a whole episode to one marketing strategy. And if you've listened to the back catalog, you'll see that especially in season one, I did an episode on Pinterest. I did an episode on email. I've had these episodes throughout that are talking about foundational marketing strategies for our businesses. And when I was flipping through season three, I was like, woah. That's not here. What am I doing?

Amelia Hruby [00:02:15]:
And the answer is that I've been having these really deep, thoughtful conversations about how we think about business, how we approach our relationship with money, how we're all grappling with these big questions around social media, and I am so thrilled to be sharing those conversations here on the feed. I know you all are loving them because I'm hearing from you that you're loving them, which really just brings me so much joy. And I thought it was time to do an episode about a specific marketing strategy. So I'm back on the mic solo style, and today we are going to talk about lead magnets.

Amelia Hruby [00:02:57]:
Now, before we do that, I do have one little promo invitation discount code I wanna share with all of you. You might have heard of the Interweb, which is our annual membership for creatives, artists, and small business owners who want to share their work and make money without social media. It includes prerecorded courses like my business success without social media class, as well as quarterly live events and just like an all around awesome group of people who are always coming to our calls. And our next live call, if you're listening when this comes out, is next week. It's on Tuesday, May 14th, and it's going to be a community coaching call where we really dive into the ins and outs of launching without social media. I did two episodes on that a couple weeks ago, so you can listen to those for a little taste of what we might get into, but I really can't stress that there's just so much magic in joining us at these gatherings.

Amelia Hruby [00:04:00]:
And I wanted to make sure that I took the time to specifically invite you. Yes, you, the one special, beautiful, wonderful person listening to this. If you've got this in your AirBuds, I would love to see you in the Interweb and on our May call. To show you how much I would love to see you there, I have created a discount code that is only gonna be shared here in this episode, not going in the email, not going anywhere else, just for our amazing listeners who are tuned in. And so you can use the code, ITSGONNABEMAY to take $10 off your membership forever.

Amelia Hruby [00:04:40]:
That code is "it's gonna be May," you know, like the NSYNC song slash joke. Anyway, that's the discount code. Please someone use it to save me from my embarrassment. It's linked in the show notes. Head there, use the code, take $10 off your membership. You get to join for the whole year for only $119, and you can come to our call next week. I just can't wait to get to know you and meet you and hear about your business and what you might be launching this year.

Amelia Hruby [00:05:15]:
Okay, now let's dive into this episode all about lead magnets and this provocative question I'm asking, which is, are lead magnets dead? Long live the lead magnet. So in typical Off the Grid fashion, I'm gonna tell you what we're gonna talk about, and then I'm gonna walk through it, and then I'm gonna recap it for you so that you can really remember it and apply it in your business. So in this episode, I am gonna cover what is a lead magnet. We're gonna go back to basics and get really clear on what a lead magnet even is. Then I'm gonna talk about why you might want to use a lead magnet and then why you might not want to use a lead magnet. And then at the end of the episode, I'm gonna unpack this question, are lead magnets dead? Because the reason that I'm bringing this up is that I've seen a lot of course lately around people critiquing or abandoning or just generally being unhappy about lead magnets, and I wanna dive into the conversation.

Amelia Hruby [00:06:19]:
So you gotta stick around to the end to know where I land on lead magnets, but let's start again by going back to basics and talking about what a lead magnet is. According to Investopedia, you know, that age old resource we're all looking at all the time, AKA the one that Google picked as the featured answer at the top of SEO for what is lead magnet. But according to them, a lead magnet is "a marketing term for a free item or service that is given away for the purpose of gathering contact details. For example, lead magnets can be trial subscriptions, samples, white papers, e-newsletters, and free consultations. Marketers use lead magnets to create sales leads. The marketers attempt to convert the leads into paying customers of a product or service, or they may market unrelated offerings to the sales leads."

Amelia Hruby [00:07:19]:
Okay. With that on the table, let me unpack it a bit. So a lead magnet is a free item or service that you give away for the purpose of getting people's contact info. In the world of online business, this would be some type of free digital product or resource or tool that you are giving people in exchange for their email address. Once you have that email address, then you can contact those people to sell them things. And your goal, supposedly, is to convert those people into paying customers.

Amelia Hruby [00:07:59]:
So lead magnets are kind of the online business version of getting a free sample at the FroYo place. It's like, let me give you a taste of this, and then I'm really hoping you're gonna buy a whole cup or cone of it if you like it. We're giving away something smaller for free and hoping that then this person makes a purchase from us. That's what a lead magnet is. And in online business, lead magnets can be so many things. Often, we'll see the lead magnet be some type of digital resource. If you didn't fast forward the whole beginning of this podcast, you heard me mention the free Leaving Social Media Toolkit.

Amelia Hruby [00:08:45]:
That is a lead magnet. I am giving away this free resource, frankly, I think a really generous one, and in order to get that free thing, you have to give me your email address. And then when you give me your email address, I tell you that, "Okay, here's the free resource, and I'm gonna keep emailing you about this, and then eventually about Off the Grid." More on that later. But the transaction of the lead magnet is a free resource in exchange for your email address and permission to keep contacting you. My free toolkit is just one example of that. It's really just a Notion template. Other types of lead magnets could be ebooks, mini courses, master classes. You could do a free session or consultation. You could do some sort of mini version of your bigger course, product, whatever it may be.

Amelia Hruby [00:09:38]:
Often in a product based space, the quote unquote lead magnet may actually just be a discount code. You offer someone 10% off in exchange for their email address, and the magnet is the discount. That's what's getting them to hand over their contact info. I mean, who here has not given a brand their email address in exchange for a discount? Anyone? If you are someone who has truly never done that, I am in awe of you, like, truly. I do it all the time. And now I'm always forking over my phone number. Like, yes. I'll give you permission to text me for 25% off my first purchase, whatever, whatever. Right? Like, this is lead magnet marketing, all of this, and sometimes the lead magnet itself is the discount code. Sometimes it's a piece of content. Sometimes it's a service that you're giving away for free. Any of these things can be a lead magnet.

Amelia Hruby [00:10:32]:
Now, why might you want to use a lead magnet? I think at its essence, we create lead magnets in order to grow our audiences. So especially if you are just starting out, say you are brand new in business. You have had no clients. You don't really know anybody else who's in business. You're just trying to get this whole thing figured out. You might create a lead magnet in order to start growing your email list. Because an email list, in my opinion, is an invaluable resource for any business owner. And so if you are just starting out, I think a lead magnet can be a great way to offer value to the people that you're hoping to be in community with, that hoping might become your customers or clients, and then they give you their email address and then you can stay in contact with them. That's a great reason to use a lead magnet, audience growth, especially when we're just starting out.

Amelia Hruby [00:11:28]:
But also, you don't have to be a beginner to use a lead magnet. There may be another reason you want to grow your audience. Maybe you've been in business for a decade, but you're realizing that you're just not getting the referrals you used to, and you want to really boost your email newsletter so that you have more new people coming into your ecosystem. That could be another reason to use a lead magnet. Lead magnets also aren't just about audience growth. They can be about nurturing people. So in case this is your first ever episode of Off the Grid, I often talk about marketing in three phases or stages, growing your audience, nurturing your community, and selling your offerings or products.

Amelia Hruby [00:12:09]:
And so lead magnets are really great for this audience growth piece. And then you can use a lead magnet to really nurture your community, And this is often done by creating a nurture sequence. So after you set up the lead magnet, the person gives you their email address, you email them this free resource, then often you'll create a series of follow-up emails to that that introduces you, that talks more about other resources perhaps that you've created, and eventually, in my opinion, sells them something. So we give them the lead magnet to attract and bring them in to our audience. Then we send them the nurture sequence to nurture them and hopefully make them a member of our community, bring them in closer, and then we make the sale at the end of the nurture sequence. This is a very common sales funnel strategy.

Amelia Hruby [00:13:04]:
Just to be clear, I did not invent this. This is something that I have learned from so many other people. If you wanna learn more about this, you can go back to the Email as a Love Language episode. You can go back to our episode about email with Holly Wielkoszewski. Great places to learn more about lead magnets and nurture sequences. But those are the reasons we might wanna use a lead magnet. So I think that lead magnets are really great for audience growth or building an audience from scratch, and I also think that a lead magnet paired with a nurture sequence is really great for cultivating trust.

Amelia Hruby [00:13:35]:
And the third piece of this that I haven't mentioned yet is that lead magnets are a renewable resource in our business. So I think that often, especially if you are on the social media grind, when you're doing marketing, it's like you have to churn out more and more and more and more and more and more content, more posts, more podcast episodes, more emails, more everything. But with a lead magnet and a nurture sequence, you can make one really good lead magnet, pair it with one really good nurture sequence, and then you just update that seasonally. That's what I have done with the Leaving Social Media Toolkit. This show has had the same lead magnet since I started it two years ago.

Amelia Hruby [00:14:15]:
And I have a reminder in my Notion workspace to check-in with the nurture sequence and update it every quarter, and so I do. Now that doesn't mean I just one and done, don't have to do any more marketing. Like, I make these podcast episodes every week, and I invite you to get the Leaving Social Media Toolkit every week, and I guest on other podcasts and invite them, and I teach workshops. Like, I'm always directing people to the lead magnet. That's what my marketing's about now. But I just get to talk about this one really valuable free thing that I've created, and that lead magnet plus the nurture sequence, then that does the work of growing my audience, bringing them in closer, letting them get to know me, and selling them, in this case, the Interweb, so our annual membership. I get to go out and have new fun ways to talk about this great thing I made, and my job is to always be driving new people toward it, but I'm not, like, reinventing it every time. It's this renewable resource in my business.

Amelia Hruby [00:15:17]:
So I think that those are a lot of great reasons to use a lead magnet. Build your audience from scratch, grow the audience you have, build trust with them, and cultivate a more sustainable marketing strategy around this renewable resource. So why might you not want to use a lead magnet? So we've talked about what is a lead magnet, why you might want to use a lead magnet. Now why might this not be a good fit for you? I think that lead magnets are best suited for people who are engaged in email marketing. And I think that we need to distinguish email marketing from writing a newsletter.

Amelia Hruby [00:15:58]:
I tried to make this distinction back when I did my episode on Substack last season. It's called To Substack or Not to Substack, and I unpack whether or not I think Substack is good for small businesses. But in that episode, I talk about how with email marketing, we are cultivating relationships with people over email in order to sell our offerings or products to them. And I think that as a result with email marketing, we are relying on segmentation, automation, and, like I said, these more renewable resources in our business. That's what I like about email marketing, is that it's a way that we can build in something like a lead magnet that can renew and regenerate over time.

Amelia Hruby [00:16:45]:
With a newsletter, I may have a slightly old school definition of this, but, I think a newsletter is an email that we send to share news. And that news may be an essay. It may be a list of events that are going on. It may be things happening in our life. It may be links that we're really loving lately. But the thing about a newsletter is that it always needs to be refreshed and updated. It should be new every time. And I love newness. I'm an Aries sun. Give me all the new things all the time.

Amelia Hruby [00:17:16]:
But I also think that with a newsletter, we can run the risk of getting into a sort of churn and burn content strategy, which is often what burns people out on social media. You're just churning out more content and burning out in the process. And so why might you not want to use a lead magnet? Well, I've just kind of told you, lead magnets are great for email marketing, but they're not great for newsletters. So if you are a newsletter writer, what you want people to opt into is getting your newsletter. It's wanting to get the news from you. Again, your news can be personal essays you send out every six months. Like, it's not like the newspaper news, but anything you're sending in your newsletter. So when people are opting into your newsletter, it should be to get the news from you. They should want to get your newsletter. And telling them "get this lead magnet" and then bait and switching them to your newsletter, I think is not the way you wanna go.

Amelia Hruby [00:18:16]:
I think that if you're offering a lead magnet, it should be very clear, either on the sign up form or in the emails that you're sending alongside it, what people are opting into. So, for instance, with the Leaving Social Media Toolkit, when you sign up for it, I send you the email with the toolkit, and in that first email, I say I'm gonna send you another email in two days. And I do that. And I say I'm gonna give you another email tomorrow. And I do that. And at the end of the nurture sequence, I say, from now on, you'll hear from me weekly when Off the Grid is in season. If you don't want to, please unsubscribe, no hard feelings. I think that's super important when we're using a lead magnet.

Amelia Hruby [00:18:53]:
But I think that if, really, what you're doing is building a newsletter list that's not for email marketing, then I don't think a lead magnet is a good strategy for you because I do think it feels like that bait and switch. I also think that you might not want to use a lead magnet if you are extremely sensitive to unsubscribes. Because when people join your list just to get the free thing, they are quite likely to unsubscribe once they've gotten the free thing. Now I'm not saying that 100% of the people should unsubscribe. If you're seeing super high unsubscribe numbers, like 10% or something like that, I think that you need to reflect on, like, what are your email practices, and there might be something else going on there. But if you are going to use a lead magnet, you need to be aware that you're probably gonna see more unsubscribes.

Amelia Hruby [00:19:43]:
I think an important question underlying this is how big do you want or need your list to be? Because if you are a service provider who only needs a handful of high paying clients at any given time, you might not need a big list. And I probably wouldn't recommend you use a lead magnet because I think that the leads that you're bringing in by offering them a free thing are not very high quality leads for you. Even if they stay on your list forever, if they just showed up to get the free thing, they may never intend to buy something. So I also think that lead magnets can pad our lists with people who are never going to purchase from us. And when that happens, the size of our email list can become dangerously close to a vanity metric. It's great if you've got 10,000 people on your list, but if 9,000 of them have been on there for 10 years and never bought anything from you. Why are you really sending those emails?

Amelia Hruby [00:20:55]:
I think it's really important to be super clear about what is the purpose of your list. And if you are a business owner who has created an email list in order to sell things and make money from it, again, I think that's email marketing. If you're doing email marketing, then you wanna really make sure that your strategy aligns with your goals. And so I think a lead magnet is really great when you do want a larger list, and you are seeing a good conversion rate between how many people are on your list and how many people have opted into your paid offerings or products. And a good conversion rate is super subjective, but I'd say anywhere from, like, three to five percent. If you're rocking 10%, you're doing awesome. Those are just some generalized benchmarks I read out in the world of the Internet.

Amelia Hruby [00:21:44]:
And, again, if you're that service provider who just needs a couple clients to pay for a higher cost service, I think that you don't really wanna pad your list with all those people who just showed up to get the free thing. You might be better served by having an email opt in that is like, "Do you wanna hear from me about upcoming offerings, products, events, etcetera? Opt in here." And I think that that can be a great way to invite people in. That said, I also think for service providers, it may just be the type of lead magnet you want to use. So instead of having like a free PDF sort of lead magnet, maybe you have a private podcast where people can really learn about your methodology. There are lead magnets that are more about quick, fast audience growth, and lead magnets that are more about nurturing trust, and I think that depending on your goals for your business and for your marketing, that will determine, one, if a lead magnet's right for you, and two, what type of lead magnet might be the right fit.

Amelia Hruby [00:22:47]:
Let's take it home by talking about this question I brought us here to ask, are lead magnets dead? And we're gonna do that right after this quick break.

Amelia Hruby [00:23:02]:
Are you feeling fed up, burned out, or totally sick of social media? Are you wondering if your business might be able to be successful without it, or if your creative work would still find its way out in the world without you posting it on Instagram or TikTok every 10 minutes? If you can relate to any of these musings of mine, I wanna invite you to join me in the Interweb. The Interweb is an annual membership for creatives, artists, small business owners, freelancers, influencers, entrepreneurs and creators who want support sharing their work and making money without social media. When you join, you get access to on demand courses taught by biz friends across the Internet and quarterly live events with me, Amelia. If you love this podcast, I hope that you'll head to the show notes to learn more and sign up so that I really can see you Off the Grid and on the Interweb. Now let's get back into today's episode.

Amelia Hruby [00:24:06]:
Are lead magnets dead? Let's talk about it. I wanna say that I Googled this in preparation for this episode, and there are posts from nine months ago, three years ago, five years ago, three weeks ago, asking this question and or saying, "Lead magnets are dead. Lead magnets are a waste of time. Here's what you should do instead." So I think that this is, again, very subjective and it's all about what your business needs, what you want for your work. That's what's most important. You have to start there, and then we decide if a lead magnet is the right strategy for you. So just know that. Nothing I say here actually determines if a lead magnet is dead for you. But I do think we can talk a little bit more about broader industry trends.

Amelia Hruby [00:24:58]:
So are lead magnets dying, dead, kaput, in the grave, expired? On the whole, I think no. Lead magnets are still incredibly popular and in my experience, they're effective. But when people ask this question, I think they are pointing to the fact that audiences are savvy to this strategy now. People know that you're gonna offer them a free thing, and you're gonna ask for their email address in exchange, And they are very ready to get the free thing and immediately unsubscribe. They are very ready to opt out of your email nurture sequence or your mailing list that they're gonna be added to from the free thing.

Amelia Hruby [00:25:43]:
So I think that one thing you could do to work around that is to offer a lead magnet and then ask people when they sign up for it if they wanna be put on your list. And I saw this strategy suggested by email marketer Tarzan Kay and in an email that was sent to me by friend of the pod, past guest, Amanda Laird. And I've really been sitting with, is this something I want to do with my lead magnets? People can get the lead magnet for free. If they want more emails from me, they have to opt into that. I think it's a great strategy for learning if your lead magnet is actually something people want to use to get to know you, or if it's just a free thing that you're giving away and the people that you're sharing it with actually have no intention of building a deeper relationship over time.

Amelia Hruby [00:26:30]:
So I think that could be one way if you're like, I want a lead magnet, but I don't wanna pad my list with people who don't care to be there, or I don't wanna see my unsubscribes go up because people immediately opt out of emails from me, I think that could be one way to go. And with that, you are showing that I'm using the lead magnet strategy, but I know that you, dear reader, are a savvy consumer and I'm giving you this option. So we're kind of working around that objection to lead magnets, that consumers and email readers are too savvy to stick with this strategy anymore. Like, they've seen through it. They're not interested.

Amelia Hruby [00:27:09]:
I think underlying that is, like, what is your lead magnet? Because I think that there are tons of lead magnets out there that are, like, destined for the free PDF graveyard, and truly no one's ever gonna use them. People aren't that interested. It's not actually like a valuable, supportive thing. And I think with lead magnets, we have to be careful. We wanna be generous, but we don't wanna give it all away for free. That's always a balance here. But I think that if your lead magnet is truly valuable and useful to the person that you intend for it to be valuable and useful for, then they're gonna want the lead magnet. They're gonna be like, "Yeah. I know. You're gonna add me to your list. Cool. Cool. Cool." That's how I feel when I sign up for a lead magnet. I'm like, "Great. I appreciate this free thing. I would like to take some more steps toward getting to know each other. And then depending on the emails you send me in your nurture sequence, I will stay subscribed or realize that you're not for me and I'd like to opt out."

Amelia Hruby [00:28:10]:
And I personally love that. It sometimes is way easier for me to do that than to try to read someone's whole website and figure out what they're about. Especially if I'm on my phone and somebody sends me a link to something and I'm like, "Oh, interesting." I'm not gonna sit there and read their whole website on my phone. But if I go to it and I can drop my email in, get a free thing, know I'm gonna get some follow-up emails, I think that's great, personally.

Amelia Hruby [00:28:34]:
So, again, are lead magnets dead? I think no. But I do take the point that people on the Internet are smart, they know what they're doing, and if we're gonna get them to get a lead magnet and stick around for the follow-up emails, it needs to be valuable. It needs to be compelling. It needs to be interesting, and it needs to be well matched between what's the lead magnet, who do you want to get it? How does it serve that specific group?

Amelia Hruby [00:29:02]:
Another reason that I see people proclaiming the death of the lead magnet is that we are in the midst of a big shift in email at large from email marketing to newsletters. I do see that with the rise of the popularity of Substack, there is a sea change in what people want and need and expect from email. And I think that Substack does not offer these types of resources. When you sign up for a Substack, you can get a welcome email, so that could include something free in it, but there's no nurture sequence capability at the time of this recording. It's not an email marketing software. So I do think that with that shift, I have definitely seen people in Substack notes talk about, like, "No lead magnet here. It's just a newsletter."

Amelia Hruby [00:29:54]:
So this goes back to why might a lead magnet not be a good fit for you? Well, if you're creating a newsletter and your goal is to create that and maybe even eventually monetize it, the product is the newsletter itself, and you don't really need to confuse people by trying to offer them this free thing that's a different thing. I think that sticking with that message is important. And I think that some people are proclaiming the death of the lead magnet because they're kind of seeing and forecasting this shift in email at large. But I don't think that shift is big enough to kill the lead magnet. I think that the people who are all on Substack Notes together are actually kind of a small community on the Internet, and I think that in the world wild web, there's just so much more going on than Substack. and I think that lead magnets will still be supportive and successful there.

Amelia Hruby [00:30:48]:
One more thing that I've seen when people declare that the lead magnet is dead is I've kind of seen them offer up two alternatives. And I think I first saw this kind of mentioned by Lexi Merritt of Pretty Decent. So I will link to Lexi in the show notes because their newsletter is fantastic. Highly recommend getting on it. And they wrote an email about this topic of are lead magnets dying? And they talked about how the things that people seem to be proposing instead of lead magnets is, they go one or two directions. They either say you should have an inexpensive product, so people are actually buying something from you, and that means that they are a more qualified lead for you. They've already spent money with you, but that it should be low cost, so the barrier to entry is pretty low, but higher than free. So we're we're raising the bar from this is a free thing to get your email address to we have a low cost thing, and that's gonna get me the email address and the ongoing relationship. That's one option.

Amelia Hruby [00:31:45]:
And then the other option is, like, have your long form valuable content available for free on your website. And I think there, you remove the barrier of requiring an email to see it with the idea that hopefully it will have a greater reach, and the people who it really resonates with will then still opt in to your email list in some way.

Amelia Hruby [00:33:38]:
So in these, we've kinda gone two different directions. We've raised the barrier to entry and lowered the barrier to entry from the lead magnet. Meaning, we've either made it cost money now, raising that bar. Or we've made it totally free, no email, lowering that bar. And I think that these are interesting options, but I'm not gonna lie. I still just like my bar that is give me your email address, and I'll give you a valuable, wonderful, free thing. And I'm just committed to having lead magnets that are actually really supportive and useful for people so that they feel like the exchange of an email address is a great one. And then I'm also committed to remaining unattached to whether they stay on the list or not, and to actually cheering on their discernment of if getting to know me better or purchasing for me is right for them.

Amelia Hruby [00:34:19]:
So, yeah, are lead magnets dead? My vote is no. I think not. Hence, long live the lead magnet. Or an ASMR style, long live the lead magnet. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode about lead magnets. I would love to hear from you on this topic, so send me an email or send me a voice message, or if you're a Spotify listener, answer the poll in the app: Are lead magnets dying? Yes, no. You can vote. I'll leave it open for a month, and then we'll see how it goes. But, again, I always appreciate hearing from you. I would love to know about your lead magnets. That'd be fun. Send them my way. Tell me how effective they've been for your business goals. And also if there's another marketing strategy you want me to unpack, you can send me that as well. I'd love to fit maybe another episode like this into this season, diving deep on a popular marketing strategy. How's it work? Who it's for? Who's it not for? And is it right for this moment in our online lives?

Amelia Hruby [00:33:40]:
That's it for today's episode. Again, if you wanna hang out with me in the Interweb, I'd love to see you there, and you can use the code, say it with me, ITSGONNABEMAY, to take $10 off your membership now and as long as you remain a member. So head to the show notes to grab that code, grab that link, grab links to everything I talked about today. And until next week, I will see you off the grid and on the Interweb.

Amelia Hruby [00:35:21]:
Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at offthegrid.fun/toolkit. This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Melissa Kaitlyn Carter of Making Audio Magic, and our logo is by n'Atelier Studio. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby, and until next time, I'll see you off the grid and on the Interweb.