💥 Why I Turned Down a Book Deal
Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients. Hello. Hello. And welcome back to book week on Off the Grid. If you didn't catch yesterday's episode with Bailey Lang, first of all, let me highly recommend it.
Amelia Hruby:And then let me say that this is a special week of the show because I am releasing three episodes this week all about books, and specifically my book, Your Attention is Sacred except on social media. But let me rewind a bit. If you're new here, hi. Hello. I'm Amelia Ruby.
Amelia Hruby:I am the host of Off The Grid. I am the founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio, and I have written a brand new book called Your Attention is Sacred except on Social Media, and it comes out next week. It officially publishes October 1 when it will be available to the general public on my website. And if you want to get a copy early, you can join the waitlist for the book, and folks on the waitlist are gonna get the link to buy in just a few days. So to celebrate the book launch, I am spending a whole season of the podcast talking about attention and creativity and how we bring our creative work to life and then get people to pay attention to it or to give their attention to it as you'll hear me or read me unpack in the book.
Amelia Hruby:Today, I'm gonna talk to you about a maybe controversial decision that I made regarding my book. And actually, that's what I'm doing today and tomorrow. So in this episode, I am resharing an episode that I shared with the clubhouse way back in the spring. So members of the Off the Grid Clubhouse got to hear this months ago, which is a gentle plug for you to go join the clubhouse if you want all the behind the scenes goods. But this episode is all about why I turned down a book deal for my upcoming book.
Amelia Hruby:Then in tomorrow's episode, I'm gonna talk about why I'm not putting my book on Amazon at all. You will not be able to purchase it on amazon.com, not the physical book, not the ebook, not the audiobook. It is not going there. I'm gonna explain why and also talk through some of the trade offs of that and what it might mean for how much money I can make from this book. Like, what do we give up when we make decisions that are aligned with our values?
Amelia Hruby:I'm always talking about trade offs here on the podcast, and I'm gonna get really honest about my book trade offs here on the feed on Friday. But for now, I wanna give you this episode. I wanna tell you why I turned down a book deal. I want to bring you in behind the scenes. And of course, if you love a behind the scenes view, we're doing even more behind the scenes stuff on the book wait list and in the clubhouse.
Amelia Hruby:There are so many ways to get more off the grid goodness. You'll find them all in the show notes. And for now, let's dive in to this episode all about why I turned down a book deal. I am gonna start from the beginning. The very, beginning is probably back when I wrote my first book, which was a journal that I self published.
Amelia Hruby:It was called 50 Feminist Mantras. I self published it, I think in 2018, and it was put together from Instagram posts that I had made. I had this series I started in 2016. It was called Feminist Mantra Monday, and I compiled entries from that series into this book that was really just kind of like weekly prompts and journaling questions to answer. And then after I self published that book and kind of sold a few 100 copies, I feel like everyone in my community had one, then I stopped selling it, kinda took it off my website, and was like, okay.
Amelia Hruby:Well, that was that. And a year or so later, I heard from a publisher at Andrews McMillan, or rather I heard from an editor, my editor Charlie, at the publisher Andrews McMillan, and she was interested in purchasing the book and re releasing it through their traditional publishing house. And so I did that. And many of you have probably heard me tell the story of how I went into overdrive on my social media presence and went all in on Instagram to try to sell this book and be a success, and how that didn't really work, and so I ended up leaving social media. And when I left social media, then we all know about a year later, I launched off the grid podcast, and that is eventually how you, yourself, dear listener, ended up here, I think.
Amelia Hruby:So the reason I share all of this is because I think it's helpful to know that I have self published a book before, and I have traditionally published the same book. And that was all such a, like, beautiful and interesting experience, and I learned a lot about the things I like to do myself, the things I don't like to do myself, where it's helpful to have support, where maybe I thought I was gonna have support that I didn't have so much support, and more. Like, I learned so much through that experience. And sometime last year, I don't really know exactly when, maybe in the summer, probably in the fall, I started to get the urge, the inkling, the desire to write another book. Now, this was not like an ongoing desire.
Amelia Hruby:Like, I edited 50 feminist mantras at the same time that I was finishing my dissertation. And so the 2020, I was like so in the weeds with writing that by the time I finished, I was like done. I was like, I don't have any more books in me. This is finished at least for now. And over the next, like, four years, that kind of was still true.
Amelia Hruby:I would say, like, until summer, fall twenty twenty four, I had no desire to write a book. There was no way where I was like, all of this is working toward the next book, and then there will be a next book. Like, I kinda thought my book experience was one and done, and I was like, cool. I did this one book. I did it two different ways.
Amelia Hruby:That's it. And now I'm a podcaster because I had launched Ultrasound, and I had Off the Grid, and I had these other shows. And I was like, great. I am a podcaster now, and I don't write books anymore. Cool.
Amelia Hruby:Cool. Cool. That's great. But sometime last fall, I started to get the urge to write another book. And I think it had to do with the fact that I have created almost a 100 episodes of Off The Grid Now, and I was just noticing that in some of these conversations, I was having amazing conversations with amazing people, and yet sometimes I would want it to be like, no.
Amelia Hruby:No. No. Wait. Here's how I think we should explain that. Here's what I think that's really about.
Amelia Hruby:Here's what I think this really means. And I realized that my point of view had really evolved from having, like, interesting experiences and questions about social media and what it means to step back or away from it, to having, like, a much more clear and crystallized point of view, a very strong point of view about the role that I think social media plays in our lives, and the role that I think perhaps it could not or should not play in our lives. And I was like, oh, I have a really strong point of view here, and I think it wants to come out. I think it wants to be written down. I think it wants to be a book.
Amelia Hruby:And I'll be honest, I kinda resisted that for a minute. I was like, couldn't this just be a podcast episode? I was like, just, you know, just a little one. I can just make some solo episodes. I'm a podcaster now.
Amelia Hruby:I'm not a writer. I'm a podcaster. I'm going to podcast about this, not write about this. But I had a few not so successful rambling recordings I did around it. And as I tried to force it into podcast format, I realized that this was really a book.
Amelia Hruby:And that helped me see what the role of a book is in the work. And I started to realize that the podcast was all like research and creative development. I have learned so much by making Off The Grid. And I've really figured out what I think about all these things by making Off The Grid. I did that for three years.
Amelia Hruby:And I think that the reason I started to feel like I wanted to write a book is because all 100 episodes of the show so far were ready to integrate into a different container, a different form. And again, that sort of like crystal clear POV that I suddenly realized I had. And that is the book. And it has been really interesting since I had that realization. I was like, okay.
Amelia Hruby:Gotta write a book. We're writing a book. I'm a writer again. Guess it's coming back. This wants to be a book, so I have to write the book.
Amelia Hruby:That's kind of how it came to me. It wasn't like I wanted to write a book, so I went to figure out what my book would be about. It was like, no. There's something I need to say, and that thing wants to be a book. And so I have to figure out what form that book is gonna take and how I'm gonna write it.
Amelia Hruby:Because honestly, I have been out of my writing practice for years. I write a ton of marketing emails, but I haven't even been journaling for the past three or four years. Like, I have been so far out of my personal writing practice that I wasn't even totally sure how to reengage with it. But I chose to trust that this wanted to be a book, and that writing is a skill that I honed my entire life. So it's not like I just lost it because I didn't do it for a few years.
Amelia Hruby:Maybe it's a little rusty, but it's still there. And I started to think about what would this book be. And as I sat with that, I went back through the Off the Grid archives. I went back to the episodes where I really felt like I was really trying to figure something out for myself, and listen to those, and figured out what I was thinking. And I started letting myself free write a bit.
Amelia Hruby:I started reading some other books about social media, finding the places where like I felt that friction of like, no, no, no, think it's like this. And the this is then what I started writing about. And so over the course of last fall, I started kinda some like napkin drafts. And I figured out what the sort of big three themes were gonna be. And I was like, okay, cool.
Amelia Hruby:This wants to have three chapters. I'm gonna talk about these three things. And I just wrote, like, paragraphs or pages here and there, and they were scattered across my notes app, my Notion, literally handwritten on the back of things that printed out wrong in my office. Like, they were all over the place. And by the time I got to the 2024, I was like, okay.
Amelia Hruby:This needs to come this is ready to come together. Like, I let myself sit with it. I let myself think about it. And now is the time to do the actual work of integration. Because it was one thing to kind of know it wanted to come together and integrate, but it's another thing to actually, like, write the dang book.
Amelia Hruby:Like, that is, like, the work I had to do. I was doing the, like, nice sort of, like, receptive, letting it all integrate within me and sort of dabbling here and there process. But I knew at the end of last year, like, it is time to write the book. So I worked pretty hard to clear my schedule in January. So I had very few calls on the calendar, and I scheduled a week where I was gonna go to a hotel, and I was gonna write this book.
Amelia Hruby:And leading up to that week, I collected notes. I collected sources. I, like, made sure I was very well organized and felt ready to approach each chapter. And then when the week came, I went to the hotel. It's this cute little boutique Marriott thing here in Lincoln where I live.
Amelia Hruby:And I got myself a room, and I sat myself up for, I think it was, like, five days, four nights. Four days, three nights, One of those. And I wrote a chapter each day. Now, this was definitely a sprint of a writing process, and I am not here trying to say, like, I did it like this, so you can too. Actually, I I have no clue how you can write your next book.
Amelia Hruby:That's not what I'm sharing here. I have no advice for how to write books. I'm just sharing how I created mine. And I knew for myself that a, as the Aries sun I am, I like to work in sprints. I am much more of a sprinter than a marathoner.
Amelia Hruby:So I thought that that type of writing process would work well for me. And b, I had been developing these ideas for over three years. Like, I was ready to get them all out. Like, it actually felt like like when people talk about being, like, creatively constipated. I don't know if I felt constipated, but it was like, this whole book is, like, literally at the back of my throat ready to come out of my mouth or, like, sitting in my hands ready to come out on the keyboard.
Amelia Hruby:It was there, and so I just felt like all I needed to do was give it some time and space to flow out of me, and so that's what I did. And I wrote one chapter per day, three chapters, three days, and then spent some time doing a bit of rereading, a bit of integrating, and the first draft was done. And I think that draft was like just over 15,000 words. Like, I really felt like, okay. I kind of figured this out.
Amelia Hruby:And I left that week feeling on top of the world. Like, let me tell you, I was sending voice messages to all of my biz besties being like, I wrote a book. It is so good. I was like so so into it. I was feeling myself.
Amelia Hruby:I was feeling this manuscript. I was like, this is the best thing ever. And I think that that feeling actually had less to do with what I had written, and more to do with how good it felt to really integrate and let it all flow. Like, I got to spend that week just like in flow, letting ideas come together. And as a Gemini moon and Venus in the sixth house, let me tell you, there is nothing I love more than, like, a clickety clack, tippety tap, keyboard idea brainstorm session.
Amelia Hruby:Like, that is my dream. That's like my favorite feeling in the world. It feels so good to me. And I think that's why I felt so excited when I finished the book. I was like, this is amazing, and this is everything.
Amelia Hruby:And I did it. I wrote the book in a week. Now, after I wrote the book in a week, I took some days away from it, a week or so maybe. And then I went back through the manuscript just to, like, clear out some basic edits, typos, grammar, moving a couple things around like that. And I handed it to my partner, JJ, and asked them to read it while I was out of town for a weekend.
Amelia Hruby:Now JJ is not in the online business, social media space at all, but JJ is a editor for US chess, and they have great experience, you know, just like editing, writing, working with a piece of style guide. And also, JJ is a former PhD student, is ABD at Stanford in philosophy, so shares a lot of my philosophical leanings and proclivities, and I felt like would really help me both work on, like, the logic of the book and the style, the literal literal grammar of the book, etcetera. So I passed the book to JJ. I was like, please read this, and please be nice. I was like, this is not a philosophy teardown.
Amelia Hruby:This is a, like, help me make it better and feel good about it in the process. So I did that. JJ left comments. We talked about it. I made some changes.
Amelia Hruby:And then my lovely dear friend offered to read the book and give me some thoughts. And so she read the book and shared some, like, bigger picture feedback and thoughts on shifting, like, the tone and putting more of myself into the writing. And by that point in the process, I hated the book, to be honest. I I had written it. I was so in love with it.
Amelia Hruby:I gave it to people I loved. They said nice things about it. But I was now at, like, the bottom part of the cycle, and I was just feeling like I hate everything I've written, and I probably should tell everybody I'm not writing a book anymore, and this will never see the light of day. That's basically where my head was at. I was like, this cannot go out into the world.
Amelia Hruby:This is awful. And it didn't matter that the people who'd read the book were like, this is not awful. You're just you're just at the point where, like, you hate the project. This is normal in the creative cycle. I mean, it didn't matter.
Amelia Hruby:It was great to hear that from them, and I knew it was true. I knew that I was just at that point from loving my work to hating my work, and I would circle back to loving it again. And I knew I just needed some time. So I told myself I was gonna take a couple weeks away from looking at the manuscript. I was like, I cannot look at this anymore.
Amelia Hruby:I need to do something else, and I will come back to it in a few weeks or a month. Now I thought that break from it was just gonna be, like, a cute little time where I got back with my creative self. But I ended up going on a huge detour. So this is where we get into the part of the episode about me tearing down a book deal. And I'm gonna explain to you what happened, why it happened, how it happened, and why I made that decision.
Amelia Hruby:When I published 50 feminist mantras, the reason I had to go all the way back there to start this episode is that when I published that book, I signed a contract with Andrews McMillan. And in that contract, there was what is called an option for future work or a right of first refusal clause in the contract. And that meant that I had to take them my next book length nonfiction work and give them an opportunity to make an offer on it. And as I was writing my book, I was like, this is only 15,000 words. Like, there's no way this counts as a nonfiction length work.
Amelia Hruby:Like, there's no way I'm gonna have to take this to them. And I was also kinda like, does self publishing count as publishing in this way? And so I reached out to my agent who had done the last book deal for me, and I asked her. And I was like, this is what I wanna do. Do I need to take it to them?
Amelia Hruby:And her response was essentially, there may be some gray area, but you should just present it to them. Because you don't want that lingering over the book over time, and you might as well just clear the option now so you don't have to deal with this in the future. So all of a sudden, I was thinking I was on my, like, creative rest break. And instead, now I was like, oh, shit. I have to talk to a publisher.
Amelia Hruby:And that became this huge detour of the process. So I put together a project proposal for the book. It was not a full book proposal. I still, to this day, have never written a book proposal. I don't necessarily desire to.
Amelia Hruby:But it did give an outline of the project, the chapters, who I am, and what I bring to the marketing, and also included my first draft of the first chapter. So I sent that to them, and I was like, I haven't talked to them in five years. Like, I'm not gonna hear anything back. And of course, I got a reply the night I sent it to them that was like, this looks really interesting. We'll get back to you.
Amelia Hruby:And that's what I knew that I was in for a new journey, a new process, a new step in the path of bringing this book to life. And I strapped in and got ready for it. After I got that email, it took them about two weeks to read through everything I'd sent, and think about it, I guess, and get back to me, and have a call about the proposal. And so I had that call with my editor and with my agent, and we kinda talked about the proposal. And she said that she really wanted to take it to their acquisitions group and make an offer on the book.
Amelia Hruby:And I was pretty surprised by this because I felt like my first book for them had been pretty much a failure. If you've heard me talk about this book, you've probably heard me say that publicly. Like, my book sold, I think at the peak, something like 3,000 copies, but then with buybacks that dropped down to, like, 2,000 copies, which if you're not in publishing, it might be helpful to know that just because bookstores buy your book doesn't mean they have to keep it. They can actually sell it back to the publisher. The publisher has to buy it back if they don't sell it, and then often those buybacks get trashed, literally.
Amelia Hruby:Your book just goes to the trash. And it is wild that that is how it works. The economics of the publishing industry, like, the math does not math. That's how I feel about the whole thing. But, anyway, regardless, by the time all the buybacks came through, I sold about 2,000 copies of my first book.
Amelia Hruby:And I knew the book was never gonna earn out, which is publishing industry speak for. I get paid royalties on it because my full advance earns out. And I didn't really ever hear from my publisher, agent, or anybody again, and I was kinda like, great. We all decided this is just kind of a flop. So when they wanted to make an offer on the second book, I was like, but I flopped.
Amelia Hruby:Why are we doing this again? I just assumed, like, you don't work with me. This was a failure I haven't heard from you. Whatever. And when I spoke to Charlie on the call about this new book project, I realized that that was not her perception of the book at all.
Amelia Hruby:And she felt like the book had done okay. It came out in October 2020, which is a horrible time to release a book into the world because of the pandemic and everything else going on. And her perception was like, you did your best. We did our best. We'll try this again.
Amelia Hruby:And having that realization, I think, was maybe the most valuable thing that came out of this whole process. Like, I got to rewrite the story in my head that I was telling about my first book. Now I don't know if that, like, totally changes my feelings about the book. I've also said publicly that, like, if I were putting out a book now, I would not call it 50 feminist mantras. I think that that feels rather appropriative, and that was 2016 me making that decision, not 2025 me.
Amelia Hruby:Like, I don't really promote the book anymore. I'm pretty happy to kind of leave it in the past, and that still feels true. But I am happy that I was able to rewrite this story of, like, it wasn't an all out failure. I don't need to feel bad about it. It just was what it was.
Amelia Hruby:Everybody did their best, and it did okay. As that story was rewriting and reintegrating, I started to think about what it would be like to have my new book come out with this publisher again. You know, I liked working with my agent the first time. I liked working with the editor. The publisher created a beautiful book.
Amelia Hruby:And if I sold this book to them, I wouldn't have to do any of the work of self publishing. I wouldn't have to get a cover made. I wouldn't have to get the book laid out. I wouldn't have to figure out how to use IngramSpark or anybody else. I wouldn't have to pick a release date.
Amelia Hruby:I wouldn't have to do anything except finish the manuscript, do the edits, and then kind of be advising on some other stages of the process that they handled. So that really started to appeal to me. I was feeling pretty busy and overworked throughout late February and into March. And I was like, what if I didn't have to add a whole book on top of this? What if I could just work with somebody else?
Amelia Hruby:And so that story, that new possibility kind of started to sink its claws in as the book went through the process at the publisher from the acquisition table to the publisher themselves to, like, the deal and all of the different things. I actually have no clue how it works on their end. But I spent about two weeks from being told they were gonna make an offer to receiving the offer, doing a lot of daydreaming and soul searching, and trying to figure out, like, I was so committed to self publishing this book. Is that the path I should stay on? Or how would it feel to sell the book to a publisher and watch it be traditionally published?
Amelia Hruby:And I spent a lot of time in that space. And honestly, I felt like by the time I came up on two full weeks, I was pretty sure I was gonna sell the book. I was like, actually, this sounds pretty great to not have to do the work myself. All I ever do is do the work myself. That's like who I am.
Amelia Hruby:I am such a Capricorn rising, hard worker, hard worker, hard worker. Like, what if I didn't have to do this myself? And so I felt like I had done a full one eighty on self publishing versus traditional publishing, and I was just waiting for the offer to come in. And I was waiting, and I was waiting, and I was getting more and more anxious, and more and more anxious. And the day before I was expecting it, I had been told it was coming the next day, I circled back with a few friends who I had been talking to about this.
Amelia Hruby:And my friend, Nicole, suggested that I should just make a list of the benefits of self publishing and the benefits of traditional publishing, and have that list in front of me, like, when I open the offer, or, like, when I consider it. So that I can be just, like, seeing the full picture in addition to whatever comes in. So I did that. And I will put a screenshot of that list in the email or show notes or whatever for this episode or on the Substack page for this episode. But basically, on the benefits of self publishing side, I wrote ownership of all content and design, maximum profit per book sold, and control over timeline.
Amelia Hruby:So I can definitely publish this year, 2025, because I really want the book to come out this year. And under benefits of traditional publishing, I wrote bookstore placement. My last book was in Barnes and Noble in all the places, and I know they could get it there again. I also wrote can hand off the book after manuscript is done, and gatekeeper approval and reach beyond my network. It felt important to me to acknowledge that part of what is appealing about a traditional book deal is that the publishing industry is like a series of locked gates.
Amelia Hruby:And if you have a book coming out there, there is this sort of, like, gatekeeper approval that feels like it will open up other gates to other things that I can't open on my own. Now this was something I grappled with a lot with my first book, because I thought having a book come out with a publisher would just open those gates. And what I learned is it doesn't really. There's still a lot of other work that has to go into opening these gates, and having that book out is really just, like, maybe one piece of that. It's like you don't even have the whole key to the other gates.
Amelia Hruby:You can just kinda see some of the gates now, or people will tell you about the gates now. Like, it's such a tiny piece of it. So I know that that's not the full story, but I am still human. I still want approval from people with power. Let's be honest.
Amelia Hruby:That is still a part of my, like, good girl coding that I'm always unearthing and unworking. And so I did think that was a benefit, and it was something that I wanted. And so I wrote those lists, and the next day I got the offer. And as soon as I saw the offer, I was like, oh, yeah. This is not gonna work.
Amelia Hruby:I cannot take this offer. And the reason I cannot take the offer really came down to the fact that I would make so much more money self publishing this book. And it did not feel worth it to me to sell all the rights to the book. Right? Because when you publish a book, like, the publishing company owns the words.
Amelia Hruby:You can't just lift chapters and put them elsewhere. You can't just, like, magically turn it into other things. You can't just record an audiobook because you want to. Like, the publishing company owns the work. And I knew that if I was gonna sell this work that was the result of these, like, years of research and experience and integration, I, of course, wanted to make some money from that.
Amelia Hruby:And based on, like, the math I've been doing, selling the book to them, I would have made less than half of what I could make or what I think I will make in the first year or so of publishing the book myself. And for full transparency, because that is what I do here, the offer was for $7,500. That was the advance. And I think I can definitely make $15 selling this book myself. Now granted, I will have to pay for cover design and layout, and I will have to pay for printing, and I will have to be shipping it myself.
Amelia Hruby:But still, I think I can make way more money doing it myself than that advance would have gotten me. And while the number told me immediately, like, this was not gonna work, what it really came down to, as I sat with it throughout that day, was that I know I can sell at least a few thousand copies of this book because you, dear listener, and all of the off the grid listeners, like, are excited about it. And I believe you, and I trust you when you say that. And I know we'll spread the word about it, and I know the book will get out there, and I know it will resonate with people. And I trust that because I have been working creatively with such clarity and resonance.
Amelia Hruby:And knowing that I can sell a few thousand copies of the book, when I started to think about self publishing versus traditional publishing, I was like, in traditional publishing, selling a few thousand copies of this book is a failure. That's what happened with my last book. I sold 2,000 copies. And maybe it didn't feel massively. I've already talked about, like, rewriting that story, but I will never make more money on that book than I made from the advance.
Amelia Hruby:It's just not gonna happen. Like, when I look at the royalties, when I look at how many copies I would have to sell based on the price of the book and it's not even, like, the standing price of the book, the cover price of the book. It's actually the net price of the book. Anytime it gets discounted by Amazon, anytime somebody runs a sale on it, like, I just get royalties based on the net sale. And I think it's, like, 15% based on the net sale.
Amelia Hruby:So if, you know, the book gets marked down to $10, which I've definitely seen my last book marked down that way, the if book is marked down to $10, I make 15%, I make a dollar 50 off that sale. And if I have to make back the $7,500 that was my advance off of a dollar 50 a book, I have to sell over 5,000 books just to earn out my advance. And I don't know if I'll sell 5,000 books. And so the more I mathed the math in the traditional publishing way, I was just like, selling a few thousand copies of this book in that model will be a failure. And I don't want it to feel like a failure.
Amelia Hruby:I want it to feel like a success. I want selling a few thousand copies of my book to be a success, an overwhelming success, a huge success. Because if I sell a few thousand copies of the book in the self published model, I will make way more money, and my relationship to it will be so different. And I have full ownership over the book, so I can use the words elsewhere. I can have a chapter printed in a different publication.
Amelia Hruby:I can make zines from the things. I will own the cover design, so I can make t shirts and stickers and all the merch that I love to make, postcards going out to everybody. Like, I can do so much more with it because I will have that ownership of it, and that feels really good and exciting to me. And if I had decided to sell the book, I would have felt great about promoting it in so many other ways as well, like if I had decided to sell it to a publisher and traditionally publish it. But I think really what it came down to is this one sentence that I wrote underneath my benefits lists, which was I want selling a few thousand copies of my book to be a success, not a failure.
Amelia Hruby:And that is how I knew that I was going to turn down this book deal and self publish Your Attention is Sacred. So thank you so much for listening me talk about book stuff, and for your ongoing support of all the aspects of my work. And until next time, I will see you off the grid and in the clubhouse. Thanks for listening to off the grid. Don't forget to grab your free leaving social media toolkit at offthegrid.fun/toolkit.
Amelia Hruby:This podcast is a softer sounds production. Our music is by Melissa Kaitlyn Carter of Making Audio Magic, and our logo is by N'Atelier Studio. I'm your host, Amelia Hruby, and until next time, I'll see you off the grid and on the interweb. I know that you really wanna put your phone away. Yeah.
Amelia Hruby:Let's go off the grid.
Creators and Guests
