꩜ How it FEELS to leave social media — Embodiment + nervous system regulation with Elle Bower Johnston

[00:00:03] Off the Grid is a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients. I'm Amelia Hruby, a writer, speaker and founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. On this show I share stories strategies and experiments for growing your business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty.

Download your free leaving social media toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig and join us as we do it all off the grid.

[00:00:32] Music.

Amelia [00:00:02] [Music overlapping with introduction to the episode] Welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast for small business owners who want to leave social media without losing all their clients.

Amelia [00:00:08] I'm Amelia Hruby, writer, speaker, and founder of Softer Sounds podcast studio. On this show, I share stories, strategies, and experiments for growing your business with radical generosity and energetic sovereignty.

Amelia [00:00:22] Download your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig and join us as we do it all off the grid [music gets louder and then fades out].

Amelia [00:00:35] Hello and welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast about leaving social media without losing all your clients. I'm Amelia Hruby. I am a writer, speaker, and the founder of Softer Sounds, a feminist podcast studio for entrepreneurs and creatives. I am also, as you might have guessed, the host of this podcast, and I am so glad you're tuned into this episode.

Amelia [00:00:57] Today we are kicking off Part Three of Season One of Off the Grid. I did not expect Season One to have three whole parts but once we got rolling, I just heard from so many amazing listeners and friends and collaborators of mine who wanted to talk more about these topics around leaving social media.

Amelia [00:01:16] So, today I will be joined by a dear internet friend [chuckles] and wonderful guest, Elle or Ellie Johnston of An¬¬_other Practice.

Amelia [00:01:25] Before we dive into that conversation, I do have two quick reminders for you, as always.

Amelia [00:01:30] Reminder number one is don't forget to download the Free Leaving Social Media Toolkit. This is our totally free resource for leaving social media and creating your fun, feel-good algorithm-free marketing plan. The toolkit has three of my favorite marketing tools of all time inside, including the much-coveted list of 100 Ways to Share Your Work Off Social Media. You can get it at softersounds.studio/byeig. All you have to do is drop your email there and it'll land in your inbox automagically. So, again that's softersounds.studio/byeig for the Free Leaving Social Media Toolkit.

Amelia [00:02:12] Announcement number two is a reminder that The Refresh is coming up in August. I just announced this in our last episode before the break. So, if you want to head back to learn about how to plan a summer sabbatical and get all the details on The Refresh, I highly suggest that. But just to give you the quick hits here, The Refresh is a three-workshop series hosted by yours truly, where we will reset your relationship with social media and envision an algorithm-free future for your business. So, over the course of these three workshops in August, we are going to Clear the Fear of doing business differently, Weave the Web of your channels, community, and collaborators, and Make the Map of your business offerings and marketing efforts for fall.

Amelia [00:03:00] I'm thinking of it as an opportunity to take the month of August off from making content and doing anything hardcore business planning, and just join a really lovely group of people who want to have some soft support, envisioning a more fulfilling, feel-good, fun, algorithm-free, all of my [chuckles] alliteration there, future for their business.

Amelia [00:03:23] So, if you like this podcast, you're going to love The Refresh. And the very best news yet is that it's only $99 to join us, so that's less than 100 bucks to join live for these three workshops. And everyone who signs up also gets access to the recordings and some special goodies that I'm creating just for Refreshers. I'm thinking of the goodies as the refreshments because I love a good pun.

Amelia [00:03:49] So, you can head to the show notes for the link or go to softersounds.studio/refresh to learn more and sign up.

Amelia [00:03:57] Okay, those are all the announcements for today. So, let's dive into today's interview.

Amelia [00:04:03] Today, I'm here with Elle Johnston. She's an embodiment teacher, writer, and podcaster who helps folks get comfortable in their own skin. And spoiler alert, Elle left [sings "social media"] social media in November of 2021 [laughs]. Sign up, big news, gonna share that spoiler up front.

Elle [00:04:23] Shocker [laughs].

Amelia [00:04:23] Throughout the first season of the podcast, I've been hearing from listeners who basically reached out to me and say, Amelia, I love all your tools that you're sharing. It's so cool to hear your story. But like, how did it actually feel to leave social media? Like, tell me about how your nervous system did. Tell me about how your body did [laughs]. So, today we're going to channel all of our water placements in our chart and have a really feelings-soaked conversation about how it feels to leave social and how it impacts your business and, all of the good good that comes up when you chart a different path for yourself. So, hi Elle. Thanks for joining me.

Elle [00:05:03] Hi. Thanks for having me [laughs lightly].

Amelia [00:05:05] I'm so pumped to have you here. So, let's dive right into the story. Tell me a little bit about yourself [laughs] and then tell me your social media story. Like, who are you and how did you get online?

Elle [00:05:17] [Laughs] Sure. Just, you know [Amelia laughs], I'll go back to, like, the 90s. You're like—

Amelia [00:05:20] Casual [laughs].

Elle [00:05:21] Casual— casual like flashback filter. So, yeah, I— I mean, as you— as you said, I am an embodiment teacher, which for those of you who aren't particularly sure what that means, it means that I work with— a lot with, like, breath and rest and— and practices, sort of somatic practices that help people get in tune with like what it actually feels like to live in their bodies—

Amelia [00:05:49] Mmm.

Elle [00:05:50] Because certainly before I started doing this, I was mostly just a floating head.

Amelia [00:05:53] Yeah.

Elle [00:05:54] Whereas like, okay, I guess I'll eat at 12:00 because that's when lunch is and you know, just, I guess I'll wear a dress because then it's meant to be hot, I don't know, whatever. But like, you know, no concept of, like, what it actually felt to be in my body.

Amelia [00:06:06] Mmhm.

Elle [00:06:06] So that's— that's kind of the work that I do. And, I mean, in terms of social media, being on the Internet, I am a child of the 90s, so I—

Amelia [00:06:19] Mmhm.

Elle [00:06:19] Have been there since Internet 1.0.

Amelia [00:06:22] Yeah.

Elle [00:06:22] You know, the sort of— the amazing like GeoCities sites with like rotating gifs [Amelia laughs] and, like, flashing letters and music that turned on—

Amelia [00:06:31] Yes.

Elle [00:06:31] The second you open the page—

Amelia [00:06:33] 100%.

Elle [00:06:33] You know, very fond memories of, like, the dancing baby [laughs].

Amelia [00:06:37] Me— I built so many GeoCities and Angelfire sites just, like, for, like, my favorite bands with clip art.

Elle [00:06:44] Amazing, amazing. So, yeah, I mean, I've been like rolling around the internet since then, but I was, I was never like a really big— ah social media— you're like you— I never really used it for massively sort of social purposes beyond like—

Amelia [00:06:59] Mmhm.

Elle [00:06:59] Chatting with people I already knew of. Like, you know, I didn't LiveJournal. I didn't, kind of, like do that, like, early blogging thing of saying everything you thought on a [Amelia laughs heartily] page on the Internet.

Amelia [00:07:09] Yeah.

Elle [00:07:09] I really remember kind of like getting into Instagram when at first, you know, probably within like the first year or two of coming out—

Amelia [00:07:19] Mmhm.

Elle [00:07:19] It was— it was a platform that was really well matched to my— my skill set and—

Amelia [00:07:23] Yeah.

Elle [00:07:23] My interests, like I was, at the time, studying fashion and very esthetically-minded. And I loved photography and I loved writing and telling stories and stuff like that. So, it was like, "Oh, cool, all of these things I can— this feels much more interesting to me."

Amelia [00:07:41] Mmhm.

Elle [00:07:42] Yeah. And for a really long time, it was just a place that I put pictures of what I was eating and stuff I saw on the street, and like, you know, pictures of me and my friends and, you know, like, life documentation kind of stuff. And then somewhere along the way within, you know, the nearly decade of me using Instagram, which is kind of freaky—

Amelia [00:08:02] Wild.

Elle [00:08:02] To think about.

Amelia [00:08:03] Right? Yeah.

Elle [00:08:04] Like, ugh, so many hours of my life [Amelia laughs heartily]. Somewhere along the way, I kind of became a small business owner. And within that, you know, suddenly Instagram was a tool that could be used— very vague tracking of my very strange career history but, like, at the time, my first business was a bakery.

Amelia [00:08:26] Oh.

Elle [00:08:26] And so again, Instagram is, you know—

Amelia [00:08:28] Yeah. I didn't know that [laughs].

Elle [00:08:29] Fashion, pastry school— well not pastry— pastry chef-ing and then embodiment. This is— this is my pathway. Yeah. And so, you know, again, very, very Instagram-friendly.

Amelia [00:08:39] Mmhm. Yeah.

Elle [00:08:39] And it was a fantastic way to build a community to— to tell people where I was going to be because I was like selling in markets. And so, I'd be like, "This is where I am today, blah, blah." You know, just, like, generate interest and conversation about what I was making.

Amelia [00:08:52] Mmhm.

Elle [00:08:53] And even that was pretty fun. And then, yeah, sort of as you move further in, like, I think the platform itself morphed and changed so much over that decade—

Amelia [00:09:04] Mmhm.

Elle [00:09:04] From like an app to share photos with your friends into this—

Amelia [00:09:08] Mmhm.

Elle [00:09:09] Massive, money-generating machine that it is now. And as I morphed from being a pastry chef into being a yoga teacher and an embodiment teacher, and I think especially as we moved into the pandemic and we all—

Amelia [00:09:21] Mmhm.

Elle [00:09:21] Had to be working online a lot, especially if we're in— used to be teaching in studios and chatting with people after class, and suddenly you're like, "Okay, I guess I've just got to figure out how to do this via the Internet instead."

Amelia [00:09:31] Yeah.

Elle [00:09:32] Yeah and then Instagram kind of became a really big lynchpin in my own— my own marketing attempts and business-building and, you know, business planning until it didn't [laughs and Amelia joins].

Amelia [00:09:48] Yeah. Yeah. So, let's dive into kind of those sticky months last fall and last summer, I think, where you're, like, grappling with how Instagram's making you feel, starting to consider that you might not want to be on the platform anymore. I guess what I want to know is, like, how did Instagram— being on Instagram feel in your body and how did that make you realize you needed to leave?

Elle [00:10:10] Hmm. I mean, I think that I'd known that I needed to leave for way longer—

Amelia [00:10:16] Mmm.

Elle [00:10:16] But yeah, it was— it was— kind of started as noticing that kind of, like, hollow hunger of the continual scroll, like, you know, where you are just like seeking and seeking and seeking for something you can never find because it doesn't actually— it's not actually a thing. You're just seeking the dopamine hit—

Amelia [00:10:35] Yeah.

Elle [00:10:35] And, kind of, starting to recognize that quite a grimy feeling to me [laughs].

Amelia [00:10:40] Mmhm.

Elle [00:10:41] Like, you're just like—

Amelia [00:10:41] Yeah.

Elle [00:10:41] Oh, god. Like, clawing for— clawing for nothingness.

Amelia [00:10:45] Yeah.

Elle [00:10:46] So, yeah, starting to kind of, like, pick up or like every time I spent too long on the app, I kind of come away with this like, "Ugh, what was that like— what— what is this?" Yeah, from there, it kind of spiraled in or expanded into all of the other parts of it, like, kind of noticing the way that I would pretty much hold my breath the whole time [laughs]—

Amelia [00:11:11] Mmm.

Elle [00:11:11] I was on Instagram just like, you know, these little [breathes short gasps] short, shallow breaths, like noticing—

Amelia [00:11:19] Yeah.

Elle [00:11:19] Kind of, like, rush of what I recognize now as like activation of like nervous system activation—

Amelia [00:11:26] Mm.

Elle [00:11:26] Which is kind of like, you know, your body slipping into, like, fight or flight. And just sort of— you know, I'm just— I'm sat here on the couch. There's no tigers, there's nothing attacking me. There is nothing happening.

Amelia [00:11:36] Yeah.

Elle [00:11:36] But I'm like [makes trill sound]— my body is, like, ready to— [gasps] to— to react to something and kind of like—

Amelia [00:11:43] Yeah.

Elle [00:11:43] Bracing. Yeah. Like, it's just— kind of like it wasn't— you know, it very rarely is a very, like, linear story, but, you know, just these kind of like little like points of like, “Oh yeah, that's happening.” And, “Oh yeah, that's the sort of the result of me opening this up.”

Amelia [00:11:58] Mmhm.

Elle [00:11:59] And then from a, like, you know, also a presence and awareness perspective as well, just like noticing how mindless it had become, where I just, like—

Amelia [00:12:09] Mmhm.

Elle [00:12:09] Pick my phone up to check the weather and I'd be like, "Okay, cool. No, no, this is not where I meant to be. What is happening?" [Amelia and Elle laugh together] I've been here 20 minutes already.

Amelia [00:12:17] Yeah. Yeah. Ugh, I remember all of these feelings you're talking about, like the clawing, the— the dopamine seeking, the— for me, it would just be like my whole body would just be really, like, tingly, but not in the good way. In the like jittery— like I've had too much coffee way of and—

Elle [00:12:37] Yeah.

Amelia [00:12:37] Like— just like as I would scroll.

Elle [00:12:38] Like the skin's a little bit too tight.

Amelia [00:12:39] Yes, exactly. I remember feeling that when I'd be scrolling on the platform or, for me, it often manifested in this, like, obsessive content creation. Or just like— I think I shared on a previous episode— like I would spend so much time planning my feed. I did that almost just as much [Elle laughs] as I was scrolling, moving the little squares around—

Elle [00:13:00] Yep.

Amelia [00:13:00] In my planning app. I would sit on the couch in the evenings with my partner for hours thinking about that. And, you know, I under— like, I don't want to dismiss anyone who's doing that or if that is your experience. I feel you; I have been there [laughs lightly]. But I think something that, like, kind of happened for me as well as— in my human design. I'm a generator with a sacral authority. And so, I do tend to get pretty strong gut responses to things. And I could feel my— my gut start saying, "No." Like I could feel— I would like get on Instagram and my body would like move back from my phone like I could feel my body start to recoil. And as you said at the very beginning, like you knew you needed to leave a long time before you actually did. Eventually, I realized, like my body knew I needed to leave well before I actually, like, made a decision to leave because I would just override all those feelings.

Elle [00:13:53] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:13:53] I would constantly be like— even if I noticed them— it took me a long time to notice them, and even then, when I did, I would just tell myself, "Eh, whatever." Like I would just talk it down.

Elle [00:14:03] Well you have to be on Instagram, to be a business— like to have a successful business. So like—

Amelia [00:14:06] Yeah, like all these narratives—

Elle [00:14:08] Okay we can make this work for us. So, like you know— okay like, you know, that bargaining that happens [laughs].

Amelia [00:14:14] Yes. Exactly, right? I'd just be— like there's, like, just like voices in my head talking and speaking over all of my body's voice and or my body's voice or my body signals or those feelings in this instance. Could you maybe give us a little primer and talk a little bit more about the nervous system regulation and dysregulation that you mentioned that—

Elle [00:14:35] Yes.

Amelia [00:14:35] Might be totally new to some people. So maybe you can, kind of, just tell us what it means and talk more.

Elle [00:14:39] Nervous system 101.

Amelia [00:14:40] Yes, me too.

Elle [00:14:42] You know, every time I hear someone else do it, I'm like, "Oh, yeah [laughs]."

Elle [00:14:45] We have a nervous system. It is what enervates all of our body—

Amelia [00:14:50] Mmhm.

Elle [00:14:50] And there is a branch of it that is called the autonomic nervous system. So, we have— we have things like being able to control our muscles, being able to trigger things that we can purposefully choose to do.

Amelia [00:15:00] Mmhm.

Elle [00:15:00] And then the autonomic nervous system is the stuff that we don't do consciously.

Amelia [00:15:04] Mmhm.

Elle [00:15:04] So, it's the stuff like digesting your food and, you know, breathing and your heart—

Amelia [00:15:09] Mmhm.

Elle [00:15:09] Beating and all of the stuff that you actually don't want to have to purposefully do all the time.

Amelia [00:15:13] Mmhm.

Elle [00:15:14] And then within the autonomic nervous system, you have two, kind of, sides of it. You have the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system. So, sympathetic nervous system, somewhat counterintuitively, is the fight and flight, kind of, reaction. It is activation to move through the world. You know, we need this to wake us up in the morning, to run away from tigers—

Amelia [00:15:38] Yeah.

Elle [00:15:38] To you know like— to do all of the things that we need to do. And we also have the parasympathetic nervous system, which is what is known as like the rest and digest. So—

Amelia [00:15:47] Mmhm.

Elle [00:15:47] You know, we also need that to be able to sleep [laughs]—

Amelia [00:15:50] Yeah.

Elle [00:15:50] Digest our food, like, you know, relax.

Amelia [00:15:55] Mmhm.

Elle [00:15:55] A lot of the work I do is— is helping people kind of, like, parse out what— what that actually feels like in your body—

Amelia [00:16:02] Mm mmhm.

Elle [00:16:02] Because, you know, we can cognitively understand it. You can go on Wikipedia and read, like, reams of information [laughs] about, like, what your nervous system does.

Amelia [00:16:12] Mmhm.

Elle [00:16:13] But what does that actually feel like in your body?

Amelia [00:16:16] Mmhm.

Elle [00:16:16] I mean, it's— it's just as a curiosity to you, you know, you dear listener, you know, you might— you might just notice, like, next time you get a startle or, you know, you get a fright or something like that, or even just, you know, you go for a run. Something that you are obviously activating your nervous system. You might just take a pause and kind of like notice the subtle sensations like what— what is happening, you know? Do you feel any tingles? Do you feel anything in particular in, like, your gut or in your sort of anywhere else in your body and then vice versa if it weren't— for when you're feeling really restful and like relaxed, like what does that actually—

Amelia [00:16:54] Mmhm.

Elle [00:16:54] Feel like in your body? And so, yeah, like when we— when we talk about nervous system regulation, it isn't necessarily that definitely isn't that you only want to be calm and still.

Amelia [00:17:06] Yeah.

Elle [00:17:06] It's that you want to be able to have the fluidity and the capacity to, kind of, like, move back and forth between these states as— as you need to—

Amelia [00:17:18] Mmhm.

Elle [00:17:18] As serves you to live well in your life.

Amelia [00:17:22] Mmhm.

Elle [00:17:23] And you know what? What we often find in the world as it is, is that there is a lot of opportunity for activation.

Amelia [00:17:30] Mmhm.

Elle [00:17:31] And there is less opportunity for, like, downregulation.

Amelia [00:17:37] Mmhm.

Elle [00:17:37] So, you know, there are a lot of things that can switch you on.

Amelia [00:17:39] Mmhm.

Elle [00:17:40] And not so much— you know, you have to be quite intentional about, like, pulling back and switching off and—

Amelia [00:17:47] Mmhm.

Elle [00:17:47] Like, slowing down.

Amelia [00:17:49] Yeah. So, what did you— and now with this, like, new framework in mind, how did you start to think about social media and how— and then let's talk about maybe less like being on when you actually left, like what changed in your body and then in your embodied experience?

Elle [00:18:08] So, I mean, I would love to imagine that I was [laughs], you know, the kind of person who was like, “Okay, I figured it out— I figured out [Amelia laughs] that this is not good for me. And— and I'm going to do the thing that is best for me every time.” No. No.

Amelia [00:18:22] [Chuckles] Not at all.

Elle [00:18:23] Unfortunately, I am still a human and I have plenty of human foibles. But there is a point that I find in my own experience where, like, [laughs] the signs get so loud that I'm like, “Okay, I have to actually pay attention to these.”

Amelia [00:18:37] Mmhm.

Elle [00:18:38] And unlike your— you know, your beautifully, like, measured Leaving Social Media Plan [Amelia laughs], which I've now listened to in retrospect, and been like, "Oh, yeah." I was just like, "I can't, I'm out, I'm done." Like, delete— delete the app, I'm gone [Amelia laughs heartily].

Amelia [00:18:54] And that is, I want to say what most people do [Elle laughs] and most of us are not like Capricorn Risings like myself [Elle laughs] who, like, need a plan.

Elle [00:19:02] I'm Aries Rising so that's yeah— very.

Amelia [00:19:05] You're like, "Out [laughs]."

Elle [00:19:06] Nope. Burn it down. I'm done [laughs]. So— so yeah. That was— that was November last year. And I was like, "Cool." You know, I had— I had done this like really, kind of, beautiful collaboration with a friend, but the launch itself felt quite urgent in my system.

Amelia [00:19:25] Mmhm.

Elle [00:19:26] I, kind of, got to the end of it, and I was like, I can't just, you know, after two years of, like, creating, putting out, well—

Amelia [00:19:32] Yeah.

Elle [00:19:32] The urgent churn that— that online business can often require.

Amelia [00:19:37] Mmhm.

Elle [00:19:37] And that definitely, like, when you're led by Instagram, kind of just gets habitual as I have to like— I can't do this anymore.

Amelia [00:19:44] Yeah.

Elle [00:19:45] So, yeah, like deleted the app and had probably about, I want to say like a week or two of kind of like a weird hangover, like having a phantom limb.

Amelia [00:19:57] Mmhm. A phantom scroll. This is like yourself, like— like touching the wall, scrolling [laughs].

Elle [00:20:03] It's more that I'd be like in a circumstance, and I was like, "I should write about this. I should write a caption about this."

Amelia [00:20:08] Oooh.

Elle [00:20:08] Or like, "Oh, I should like document this." I bet— actually, I could just be here in this instead of having to, like, mine my life for content [chuckles].

Amelia [00:20:17] Yes, really good question I got for a Q&A episode that we're already answering is like, "How long does it take to stop turning your life into content when you get off social media?" I had that same experience. I just was— every moment— since I left, I don't take pictures of what I eat anymore or what books I'm reading [Elle laughs] or, like, what I'm doing at all. But anyway, continue. So, you had this experience of just noticing that you're— the phantom limb of—

Elle [00:20:45] Yeah.

Amelia [00:20:46] Instagram because it had been so much a part of your experience that it was just still there. Your body still felt that even if you weren't on the app.

Elle [00:20:52] And— and also the kind of, like, pull to it became really apparent how much I was using it for like distracting myself from discomfort—

Amelia [00:21:01] Mmhm.

Elle [00:21:01] Of all sorts, like, you know, of being lightly bored, you know, all the way to like, you know, being upset or, you know, having—

Amelia [00:21:08] Yeah.

Elle [00:21:08] Having to, like, work through difficult feelings or thoughts and just be like, I'm just going to—

Amelia [00:21:12] Yeah.

Elle [00:21:12] Move away from this. And so— and, you know, that's— that's work that is from a physical perspective from an embody perspective is— is very much part of my practice is in—

Amelia [00:21:23] Mmhm.

Elle [00:21:24] Is like learning to be with discomfort, learning to be in discomfort.

Amelia [00:21:27] Yeah.

Elle [00:21:28] Yeah. So, like the first couple of weeks were just like this real noticing of like, "Oh wow, I've been using this to escape a bunch of stuff," not all bad or anything, but just like, you know, two years of pandemic was just like, I haven't got the capacity to deal with any of this.

Amelia [00:21:43] Yeah.

Elle [00:21:44] Yeah. Like, after the first couple of weeks, it just became much more peaceful [laughs]. Like—

Amelia [00:21:51] Mmhm.

Elle [00:21:51] It was so— it was, like, so spacious to—

Amelia [00:21:55] Mmhm.

Elle [00:21:55] To not be there anymore. To just like— to not be mining my life for content, to not be like—

Amelia [00:22:02] Mmhm.

Elle [00:22:02] To create when I— when I wanted to create rather—

Amelia [00:22:06] Mmhm.

Elle [00:22:06] Than that, like, sense of like, oh, I have to do this for the overlord of the algorithm [chuckles].

Amelia [00:22:11] Yeah. Because I'll be punished if I don't— like to not create out of fear. I feel like that's such—

Elle [00:22:16] Yeah.

Amelia [00:22:16] What so many of us on social media were or are doing is just creating out of fear or feeling like we're being punished.

Elle [00:22:23] Yeah. I mean, like, what a— what a horrible— what a horrible thing to do to our relationship with our creativity.

Amelia [00:22:30] Yeah.

Elle [00:22:30] Yeah. It felt— god it was— yeah lea— to actually leave was big and scary and confronting at some points. But also, I kept talking to friends who are— who are also small business owners and, you know, just like, "You're— oh, you're off Instagram. Oh wow. I'm really jealous. I want to, but I don't know but— I don't know. I'm too scared to like— I don't know how to run my business without it or anything." And I would just be like, "Oh, it's— it's so quiet out here." You know that sense of having a thousand other people's thoughts and opinions in your brain is just gone and it's—

Amelia [00:23:05] Yeah.

Elle [00:23:06] Beautiful [chuckles].

Amelia [00:23:06] Yeah. I mean— I— I had a very similar experience when I first left. Phantom limb is such a perfect way to describe that. Beautiful choice of words there. Like I was just reaching for— the— that clawing towards something, the reaching for the dopamine— I was still doing that, but it's just the app wasn't on my phone, so I really had to be like, "Oh." Like I was just— became even more aware of— that I was doing that. And then I went through this phase of, like, intense content creation because I had been making so much content for Instagram. I was like— and I, like, sent all these long email newsletters and I wrote all these blog posts that first summer I left. And then I think I— like my nervous system slowed down, downregulated finally. It took me like a couple of months, probably like for me, I would guess I left in April, like four months probably until the end of August, September to really like actually feel into the peace of it and not be panicking, not feel scared, not the phantom limb has totally gone away at this point. I'm over a year in and I was surprised at how long it took. And I think that many people— a cycle that I see is people leaving in the way that you mention of like so— so much overwhelm, can't do it, got to get off.

Elle [00:24:24] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:24:25] And then getting to the other side of that and then, like, fear and panic and peace, like what you just said is so beautiful. Like, it's so quiet. But often as business owners, when things get quiet, a lot of fear and panic sets in because we're like—

Elle [00:24:40] Oh yeah.

Amelia [00:24:41] Holy shit, I'm not going to have any business how I'm going to make any money [laughs].

Elle [00:24:46] Yeah [laughs].

Amelia [00:24:46] So, how did you feel that and how did— how did you manage that?

Elle [00:24:50] For sure. I mean, like, when I left, I was— we also— I also had a lot going on in my personal life.

Amelia [00:24:56] Mmhm.

Elle [00:24:57] Like we were selling a house and moving, and it was December and Christmas.

Amelia [00:25:00] Yeah.

Elle [00:25:01] So, it was a time of like— I knew it was going to be a quiet time for my business anyway because—

Amelia [00:25:08] Mmhm.

Elle [00:25:08] It was going to be Christmas and then, like, we were moving in January and that was going to take at least a month to, like, do the thing and then like—

Amelia [00:25:14] Yeah.

Elle [00:25:15] Settle. So, I knew that that was going to be two months where I mean, I didn't like step away from my business, but I definitely stepped back from being like, push, push, push, push, push. Yeah, I suppose I kind of— I definitely bumped into that fear. I still bump into that fear sometimes of like—

Amelia [00:25:32] Mmhm.

Elle [00:25:33] Maybe I should just get back on and remind people that I exist and Iike [worried sounds]—

Amelia [00:25:37] Yeah.

Elle [00:25:38] And that's kind of like— It feels like sort of unearthing the— the tendrils of urgency and—

Amelia [00:25:45] Mmm.

Elle [00:25:46] Like, very capitalistic, like, learned marketing practice of, like— cool, go fast, yell at people, tell everyone, like, you know, drag them in, like, force, force, force, force, force. Of course, that's going to take time to unearth [chuckles wearily] because it's been a long-time settling in. I expected it to have more of an impact. I expected me not yelling at people on Instagram and me also sort of like stepping back from being like really, really active for those couple of months. I expected it to have more of an impact than it did. I— I mean, I certainly noticed a bit of a— like a squeeze— a little breathe in financially, like as I've, you know, settled in new home and like had space from social media to— to start to envisage and build the foundations of a more sustainable, like more rooted, I suppose, you know, just like more human-paced—

Amelia [00:26:50] Mmm.

Elle [00:26:51] Marketing plan that's, you know, that's had way more impact with people that I'm talking to than just, you know, putting more content in their faces ever did.

Amelia [00:26:58] Yeah, I— so much of what you just said resonates with me. I was literally thinking human-paced. It was— when I heard it come out of your mouth I was like, "Yes [Elle chuckles], we are changing—" When you leave Instagram, the pace of your marketing and your life changes because of that, like, turning your life into content bit I think, like, once you extract from that or get out of that, I was able to be more present. That changed my pacing for sure, but I really am intrigued by this like when we talk about our marketing, it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that it was doing a launch that made you leave social media. Because the way that we're taught and told and encouraged and should-ed into doing launches these days is that there should be this big buildup of like free content, free content, free content, teasing things, free content, free content, like constant— like free— giving free value—

Elle [00:27:53] Mm.

Amelia [00:27:53] And then cart open for, like, three to five days and then like everybody's gotta flood in during that time and you push them really hard with—

Elle [00:28:04] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:28:04] Like scarcity tactics and then you close cart and that's I mean, I have definitely taken in that messaging and been told that that's the— the best way to do a launch.

Elle [00:28:15] Way to do it.

Amelia [00:28:15] Yeah. And was the only successful way.

Elle [00:28:16] Way to do it. Yeah.

Amelia [00:28:17] And you watch people be super successful at this and you're like, well, maybe the reason my launches haven't been working was because I wasn't doing it that way [laughs wearily]. But I think, you know, it's something I'm really working on is, like, a refusal to be urgent in my business—

Elle [00:28:32] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:28:33] The concept of launching, I'm really just trying to, like, get rid of for myself and I'm really— even when I do an event or a date-based thing like The Refresh or something, really trying to just like, you know, make the registration process slow and easy, give people lots of time to discern if it's right for them.

Elle [00:28:50] Mm.

Amelia [00:28:50] And I'm taking a leap that that will still result in the sign-up numbers and like goals that I'm hoping for— for it. And I'm wondering if, you know, you are an embodiment teacher, I think that the messaging that you have to be on social media is so incredibly strong geared toward yoga teachers, healers, like, embodied practitioners.

Elle [00:29:13] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:29:14] I see a lot of it just like— it's like a laser pointed at, like, your crew—

Elle [00:29:18] Mmhm [laughs].

Amelia [00:29:18] And your type of online business.

Elle [00:29:20] Yeah.

Amelia [00:29:20] So, I'm wondering if you could— if you maybe want to speak to like that community directly or anyone and share like how are you marketing now? What's working for you and what isn't? If you've done experiments, you're like, "Well, that didn't work at all."

Elle [00:29:37] [Laughs] I think, yeah— the thing that— that keeps coming up for me, like as I [chuckles] navigate this is like—

Amelia [00:29:44] Mmhm.

Elle [00:29:44] I mean not to sound too much like a yoga teacher, but like is alignment. Like, you know—

Amelia [00:29:49] Mm.

Elle [00:29:49] There was this real rub of like cognitive dissonance when I was talking about—

Amelia [00:29:56] Mmhm.

Elle [00:29:56] Be in your body and care for yourself and like, you know, slow down. Like I'm— I'm literally a rest teacher [laughs].

Amelia [00:30:03] Yeah, you are. It's great.

Elle [00:30:03] [Laughs] Yeah. It's like— okay, but why am I perpetuating, you know, these cultural stories of, like, urgency and hurry and, like, scarcity in the way that I—

Amelia [00:30:18] Mm.

Elle [00:30:19] You know, asking people to come and work with me.

Amelia [00:30:22] Mmhm.

Elle [00:30:22] And it just, you know— and again, in true me style, I was just like, "Okay, cool. That's got to stop now." Like, you know, like, notice it and notice it and notice it. And it is, like, "Cool. No. That's it. Done."

Amelia [00:30:32] Yeah.

Elle [00:30:33] So yeah, it's— I mean and it's been— it feels like because I had, like, December and January like really dark, going dark, not like emotionally dark [Elle and Amelia laugh together]. Like—

Amelia [00:30:44] Yeah.

Elle [00:30:44] I was just like, "Cool, like, you know, turn the lights off."

Amelia [00:30:46] Yeah.

Elle [00:30:47] Tend to the people who already in here. But like, you know, I'm not like, "Come on in."

Amelia [00:30:51] Yeah.

Elle [00:30:51] Yeah. It feels like I'm, sort of, still just beginning to play with how that actually looks with my marketing.

Amelia [00:30:59] Mmhm.

Elle [00:30:59] And I mean, Amelia, you obviously know because you helped me create it, but I have a podcast which—

Amelia [00:31:06] Mmhm.

Elle [00:31:06] I am, like, just gearing up for Season Two [laughs] after—

Amelia [00:31:10] Yay.

Elle [00:31:10] Like, I was like, I'll just take, like, a month's break. That'll be fine. Then I was like, "Nope, nope."

Amelia [00:31:14] Oh yeah, no.

Elle [00:31:15] Seems like I actually— nope, definitely need about—

Amelia [00:31:16] Six months.

Elle [00:31:17] Four or five months off.

Amelia [00:31:18] Yeah.

Elle [00:31:18] Yep [laughs and Amelia joins].

Amelia [00:31:19] Real. That's real.

Elle [00:31:19] Cool, cool. I guess we'll just go with that. So, bringing that back, which I'm really excited about and it's— it's such a beautiful way to connect with— connect with like, you know, it's an interview— largely an interview podcast. So, it's an amazing way to connect with other people who are working in—

Amelia [00:31:39] Mmhm.

Elle [00:31:39] Similar kind of fields. So—

Amelia [00:31:41] Mmhm.

Elle [00:31:41] From a personal level, that really ticks the box of like a lot of the stuff that social media was doing anyway in terms of, like, community-building.

Amelia [00:31:48] Mmhm.

Elle [00:31:49] And it's also just, like, a beautiful way to— to kind of go slower and to— to let you know— to let the things that I want to offer, the ways I want to serve the community that I work with, kind of be there for a longer time than just like—

Amelia [00:32:07] Mmhm.

Elle [00:32:07] Great, you know, a four-paragraph caption of which I'm only going to read one paragraph because I'm scrolling so fast, like, you know.

Amelia [00:32:15] Yeah.

Elle [00:32:15] There is— there is so much content on social media that, you know [laughs lightly], that I, you, anyone has created that—

Amelia [00:32:22] Mmhm.

Elle [00:32:22] That actually we haven't— we're not in a nervous system place to actually consume.

Amelia [00:32:27] Yes.

Elle [00:32:28] So yeah, podcast. Podcast is beautiful and has been a real joy to discover that I enjoy making.

Amelia [00:32:34] Mmhm.

Elle [00:32:35] I've also moved— like moved a lot of my focus onto my newsletter because I love writing. I've moved it over to Substack, which means that there is the free—

Amelia [00:32:48] Mmhm.

Elle [00:32:49] Fortnightly newsletter, but also there's the opportunity if somebody wants to work with me a little deeper—

Amelia [00:32:53] Mmhm.

Elle [00:32:53] On a really accessible like it was £5 a month.

Amelia [00:32:56] Mmhm.

Elle [00:32:57] The, you know, then we have, like, a live practice with the community there—

Amelia [00:33:01] Mmhm.

Elle [00:33:01] And they get like a monthly, like, roundup of all of the links of stuff that I've loved like playlists and music and, you know, just like, it's just—

Amelia [00:33:08] You make really good playlists—

Elle [00:33:09] I love— I love making playlists.

Amelia [00:33:09] And collect really good links. I have saved many of your playlists in my Spotify, so I'm just going to plug this [laughs].

Elle [00:33:16] It truly is one of my love languages. I love making playlists. So yeah, just like, you know, these are the two things that I'm doing at the moment and I'm really loving. I—

Amelia [00:33:27] Mmhm.

Elle [00:33:27] Yeah, I'm just kind of like playing with it, you know, in true— in true this podcast form, I am like, I've got my little, like, database [Amelia laughs] and I'm, like, putting all my little experiments in. I'm like, "Oh, that's fun. Okay, cool. We'll try that next quarter [Amelia laughs]." Like, it's— it's just so much more spacious and playful.

Amelia [00:33:44] Yeah.

Elle [00:33:44] You know, there's— there's that spaciousness again as well, like to just like, "Okay, well, what would happen if— if we played with this."

Amelia [00:33:52] Mm.

Elle [00:33:52] Like, instead of like, "Okay, cool. So, what I'm gonna do is write 15,000 captions and like—"

Amelia [00:33:59] Mmhm.

Elle [00:33:59] You know, cultivate a— you know, curate a perfect feed and then it will work—

Amelia [00:34:04] Yeah.

Elle [00:34:04] And just— it's so much more fun.

Amelia [00:34:06] Yes. I love to hear that. I'm so glad you're using the database. I love—

Elle [00:34:12] I love the database.

Amelia [00:34:12] The experiments. It's so much— it's just fun. The whole point is for it to be fun. And I love that you're playing— like play is fun and that's really the dream. And I just also wanted to share for people tuning in, like something you had done in the past that actually got me to become a one-on-one client was I love— I don't think you're doing this right now, but you've done a couple little, like, free series of mini practices where you'll teach a class for like three weeks or like—

Elle [00:34:38] Mmhm.

Amelia [00:34:38] It really— they felt really light, like beautiful experiments. And I've seen you do at least two of them, maybe you've done more. And as somebody who used to be more in your, like, parasocial ecosystem, I was like, "Oh, I love what Ellie's doing." I love— like I loved your— your content, your newsletter. And I was like, "Oh, I can tiptoe in here." And then I became a one-on-one client for a season because I was so in a moment when I really needed that support and embodiment practice and mentorship, I was like, "This is the person I've been— who's been sharing in a way that feels aligned, that feels at the pace I want to work, that invites in rest."

Elle [00:35:14] Yeah.

Amelia [00:35:14] And I think, you know, that was before you were off social media, but I can only imagine, like, how you will continue those experiments. And for people listening, it's like— it doesn't have to be a barrage of free content to get people to take a step into your ecosystem. It can be a very simple, honest invitation, and I feel like I've seen you do that just so well. All of your marketing communication, email newsletters I've seen since you left Instagram are very, like, gentle and very like, "Here's who I am. Does this speak to you? Come closer."

Elle [00:35:45] Yeah.

Amelia [00:35:45] It feels so good.

Elle [00:35:47] Yeah, it does. And, like, I'm glad that it feels good as someone who's on the receiving end—

Amelia [00:35:52] Mhm.

Elle [00:35:52] Because it feels really good as someone who's on the sort of giving end of that as well.

Amelia [00:35:58] Mmhm.

Elle [00:35:58] Like, you know, I really have a very, kind of, physical memory of, you know, that— that sense of like it's quite ugly wording, but like, you know, feeling like I had to manipulate people into wanting—

Amelia [00:36:12] Mm.

Elle [00:36:12] To work with me.

Amelia [00:36:13] Mmhm.

Elle [00:36:13] Like I'm feeling like I had to sort of shape myself into the shape that they needed to, you know, like had to kind of—

Amelia [00:36:18] Yeah.

Elle [00:36:18] Like, put on the right mask so that they would be like the right person. But it's just like, actually [breathes out], what if you just made it way more simple—

Amelia [00:36:26] Mmhm.

Elle [00:36:26] And just spoke to someone like you're a human being speaking to another person? Yeah. And it's just— it's a much more pleasant experience [laughs]—

Amelia [00:36:34] Yes.

Elle [00:36:34] On both sides, I imagine.

Amelia [00:36:36] Yes. I completely agree. So, Elle, how can people start getting your newsletter, your Substack for themselves? And tell us where we can find you on the Internet now that you're off social media and if you have any offerings or practices you want to share that's welcome to.

Elle [00:36:51] Yes, amazing. Well, as you heard, I have a podcast which is coming back in a couple of weeks called Wayward Bodies. Well, I mean, when I say weeks, I have no idea when this is coming out [laughs], but—

Amelia [00:37:02] [Laughs] It might be out.

Elle [00:37:02] Might be weeks.

Amelia [00:37:02] Yeah, soon.

Elle [00:37:05] [Laughs] So, called Wayward Bodies which— in which I talk to a bunch of really interesting people about embodiment and creativity and how we live in our bodies in the world so that, you know, there's a whole season that you can go back and kind of dive into already—-

Amelia [00:37:23] Mmhm.

Elle [00:37:23] And there will be more coming. And then yeah, my Substack is An¬_other Practice. Actually, I'm lying. That's my name— that's my Inst— my— my social media and my website. But— but, yeah. No, my— my Substack is In Practice, which it's probably easier that you access it through my website, Another Practice because obviously, I've just not memorized the—

Amelia [00:37:47] [Laughs] It's great. That's perfect.

Elle [00:37:47] The details. But yeah— but in that— it's a fortnightly free newsletter which is like a little love letter, and you know, different practices and different observations about living in a body—

Amelia [00:38:01] Mmhm.

Elle [00:38:01] And how to kind of put these concepts into practice. And then there's also the opportunity to kind of dive a little deeper and become a paid subscriber, which brings, yeah, like a monthly live practice and an archive of all of the other live practices we've done. And yeah, my monthly roundup of links and music and all sorts of other good stuff. Yeah. And then if you're on that list, that's how you'll found out about the kind of little offering magic that is bubbling away at the moment now that spring—

Amelia [00:38:33] Mmhm.

Elle [00:38:33] Has sprung and I'm, like, emerging—

Amelia [00:38:35] Yes.

Elle [00:38:36] Out of— out of the darkness.

Amelia [00:38:38] Yes.

Elle [00:38:38] So, yeah, I think there's— there’s definitely going to be a sort of digital retreat, maybe like eight days of rest—

Amelia [00:38:46] Mmm.

Elle [00:38:46] Which will be coming kind of late spring, I think. Just as a— you know, I think we often think of summer as a kind of like ramping up time, but also like can you create space, can you create spaciousness—

Amelia [00:38:57] Mmhm.

Elle [00:38:57] And rest within that kind of like flurry—

Amelia [00:39:01] Mmhm.

Elle [00:39:02] Of— of energy? Yeah.

Amelia [00:39:03] Yeah.

Elle [00:39:03] There's always the possibility to work with me one-to-one. So many opportunities.

Amelia [00:39:07] Yeah. I love that. So, listeners, all of those links will be in the show notes or if you're watching on YouTube, they'll be down below. I— if you love this conversation, I think you will really love the last episode about how to plan a summer sabbatical, how to invite in some rest with your summer. I'm like a weirdo who does not get amped up in the summer. I like— my energy totally depletes and I have nothing to give when it gets hot.

Amelia [00:39:38] So, you know, no matter how you feel about summer [laughs], sounds like, Elle and myself will both have opportunities for you to join us to have a little retreat and refreshment as we head into this hot season.

Elle [00:39:52] Mm.

Amelia [00:39:53] Thank you so much, Elle, for being here. Thank you. It was a joy. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. There are just a few more episodes left of Season One of Off the Grid, so I hope you will stick with us. As always, you can leave voice messages at speakpipe.com/offthegrid, which is also in the show notes if you want to reach out if you have thoughts, big feelings, or questions to share, I welcome your voice and I think that's it for today.

Amelia [00:40:22] So, for now, Ellie and I are going to sign [outro music begins to play] off. And until next time, we will see you off the grid, my friends. Bye for now [outro music gets louder].

Amelia [00:40:39] Thanks for listening to Off the Grid. Find links and resources in the show notes and don't forget to grab your free Leaving Social Media Toolkit at softersounds.studio/byeig. That's softersounds dot studio slash b-y-e-i-g.

Amelia [00:40:55] This podcast is a Softer Sounds production. Our music is by Purple Planet and our logo is by n'atelier Studio. If you'd like to make a podcast of your own, we'd love to help. Find more about our services at softersounds.studio. Until next time, we'll see you off the grid.